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Originally Posted by NZflyer777
(Post 37388855)
What I dont get is why CX won't sell UO seats but if you book via CX you get a full service offering...
QF does this seamlessly with JQ and even with Indigo.... this literally increases both the revenue per seat and load factors and enables way more connections . Swire has always hated the LCC model and never believed in it and just seems forced to do it and thus bought Hk express and run it kinda haphazardly I often wonder how many more higher revenue premium passengers CX would get if it invested it's losses in HK Express into better CX products and services. |
Originally Posted by Arbeysix
(Post 37389041)
QF and JQ "seamless" I don't think so. And anyway that's fundamentally a domestic operation so not really an apples with apples comparison.
NZ, Japan and indigo in india v are not domestic. |
Originally Posted by SLGO
(Post 37388425)
I strongly agree with you. It has always been unwise to replace an OW affiliated airline (KA) with a LCC (UO), which scrapped all benefits of frequent flyers and premium class travellers. It is also targeting the wrong market when they charge the same or even more than non-LCC competitors (HB, HX and sometimes CX).
But with the shortage of planes, there is a high chance than CX group would reply on UO for further expansion, in particular leisure-oriented routes. CX’s A321’s are already reasonably dense. Maybe they should just convert UO’s fleet to a KA like subsidiary. Call it Cathay Connect or Cathay Express or whatever (or Cathay Dragon for old times sake). Would greatly enhance yields and connectivity. Nobody books a J ticket only to have the last leg on an LCC. Edit: I should clarify, by “convert” I mean “rip out all interiors, throw them on a big pile, and burn them”. Then put something more adequate inside. |
Originally Posted by Freddorick
(Post 37390142)
CX’s A321’s are already reasonably dense. Maybe they should just convert UO’s fleet to a KA like subsidiary. Call it Cathay Connect or Cathay Express or whatever (or Cathay Dragon for old times sake). Would greatly enhance yields and connectivity. Nobody books a J ticket only to have the last leg on an LCC.
Edit: I should clarify, by “convert” I mean “rip out all interiors, throw them on a big pile, and burn them”. Then put something more adequate inside. |
What is the reason why UO is struggling badly but TR is performing well?
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UO was the world's fastest growing airline (or just LCC? I forget) over the last year. Many of its routes are new, taking over for Dragon or otherwise. A lot of expansion very fast without growth in consumer interest necessarily catching up (yet?) Having invested a lot in Japan routes also suffered badly from the earthquake rumors and pullback on HKers traveling there.
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Originally Posted by lixiaojuventus
(Post 37390744)
What is the reason why UO is struggling badly but TR is performing well?
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Originally Posted by Reply1984
(Post 37391602)
TR is not performing well. TR is struggling around the breakeven line and records loss in some quarters.
For many routes they are part of the strategic offering of the group. It preempts competition from/to the home base and allows a more complete network to less premium destinations. In some ways, the LCC contributes to the full-service airline profit (especially longhaul), even if not profitable by itself. |
UO is there to compete with HX and HB in the most cost effective way. And UO is winning in certain routes, Sendai Japan as an example. That being said, I do not want to sit in any of these LCC’s cramped seat to Sendai for 5 hours. Would be nice if CX flies there once weekly in the weekend.
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Originally Posted by marcommm
(Post 37391936)
UO is there to compete with HX and HB in the most cost effective way. And UO is winning in certain routes, Sendai Japan as an example. That being said, I do not want to sit in any of these LCC’s cramped seat to Sendai for 5 hours. Would be nice if CX flies there once weekly in the weekend.
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Originally Posted by yorkboy24
(Post 37391946)
I wonder if there’s a case for making UO a kind of hybrid airline where the first 5 rows come with all the perks (priority boarding, meal) as well as the perks for CX Silver members and above (lounge, tier points, miles). If they charged a certain amount, I’d be more inclined to fly OU to those other destinations. Right now I’m really reluctant to do so.
1. Seat ranges from somewhat (320/321ceo which are similar to the new LH 320neo seats but far less comfortable than BA CE) to extremely (321neo) uncomfortable. This is even when reserving a Row 1 window and paying for an extra adjacent seat, which doesn't solve the terrible padding and insufficient seat depth. The new 321neos have even less padding and don't recline. 2. No GDS access and completely non existent customer service, hold times are hours long. No flexible tickets. 3. Going out of the midfield concourse, or worse, a remote stand then a bus filled to the brim to the midfield concourse at the end of the day when you're keen to get home. 4. The clientele. Half a step above Spirit Airlines. On the positive side, this is Asia, so uncouth, but little chance of violence. 5. The staff overall (contact center, airport, and onboard) are impolite and antagonistic, but sometimes, I don't blame them due to #4 above. Lounges, better (more polite) service and proper food and drink would be nice, but I arrive close to departure anyway and have priority pass in a pinch, and don't really need to eat on short haul. Miles don't really matter when you are talking about economy on a short sector. By the way, UO isn't cheap if you book last minute.... I have paid more on UO than what I used to pay on the same sector on KA in J, that's before the cost of the extra seat. As a matter of principle I absolutely refuse to fly UO on holidays, but for work I have no choice. UO is one of the worst things CX has done for their brand image in my book. |
Originally Posted by yorkboy24
(Post 37391946)
I wonder if there’s a case for making UO a kind of hybrid airline where the first 5 rows come with all the perks (priority boarding, meal) as well as the perks for CX Silver members and above (lounge, tier points, miles). If they charged a certain amount, I’d be more inclined to fly OU to those other destinations. Right now I’m really reluctant to do so.
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I really wish CX would take some share of vacation destinations such as OKA or SYX back from UO.
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Originally Posted by brunos
(Post 37391907)
Indeed, TR has strongly negative net profit and near breakeven operational profits. But LLC airlines owned by a full service airline are a bit different from standalone LCCs.
For many routes they are part of the strategic offering of the group. It preempts competition from/to the home base and allows a more complete network to less premium destinations. In some ways, the LCC contributes to the full-service airline profit (especially longhaul), even if not profitable by itself. I think UO's biggest issue is that UO is literally an Asian Ryanair/HK-style Spring with classic Cantonese stinginess, whilst Scoot doesn't go that far to that extent even if they do resemble in in some parts. At least you know what you're paying for with TR, which I don't feel is the case with UO. UO is the kind of airline you sit once and then tell yourself never to sit it again even if they offer HK$1 fares. |
I think one of the major issue with UO is that the price gap between UO and other hybrid and even full service airline is not that big, and the add ons are not that value for money.
Just take Tokyo as an example, UO including baggage, seat selection, meal & drinks, its already like HKD 2600+, and this price has to be the flight that depart Tokyo at early morning......the gap with traditional airline is just less than 20%, or sometimes even higher than CX, NH, HX, HB. Also the hot meal plus drinks already like HKD 100 for one way, and the water they sell is like 250ml, which you will finish it in just one zip. I flew on their flight to Sendai and Komatsu, less than 5% of customers actually buy things on board. The crew just run 1 round of sales, and immediately go back to the galley within 5 mins, close the curtain and start their chatting time. How could they earn a profit with so few buy on board on such a long flight..... I think they need to find a way to stimulate the add on consumption. For example, on routes with low rate of add on baggage, they can send targeted offer to customers to attract them buy add on at a discounted price. Same for food and other travel perks like sim card, airport train tickets. |
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