Nov 13, 2018, 12:10 am
Last edit by: Scotflyer80
Currently these aircraft are based in LHR T5. The registrations are:
A320neo
G-TTNA
G-TTNB
G-TTNC
G-TTND
G-TTNE
G-TTNF
G-TTNG
G-TTNH
G-TTNI
G-TTNJ
G-TTNK
G-TTNL
G-TTNM
G-TTNO
A321neo
G-NEOP
G-NEOR
G-NEOS
G-NEOT
G-NEOU
G-NEOV
G-NEOW
G-NEOX
G-NEOY
G-NEOZ
A320neo
G-TTNA
G-TTNB
G-TTNC
G-TTND
G-TTNE
G-TTNF
G-TTNG
G-TTNH
G-TTNI
G-TTNJ
G-TTNK
G-TTNL
G-TTNM
G-TTNO
A321neo
G-NEOP
G-NEOR
G-NEOS
G-NEOT
G-NEOU
G-NEOV
G-NEOW
G-NEOX
G-NEOY
G-NEOZ
NEOs and a couple of SH changes
Jan 2, 2018, 2:36 am
#106
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Lemonia. Best Greek ever.
Posts: 2,274
With these even more cheaply equipped planes, Mr Cruz has clearly decided that he wants to compete with Ryanair and EasyJet.
However, with BAs cost base, and the extra costs of being at LHR, he cannot compete with them.
I suggest that that one of his MBAs needs to point this out to him. They would , of course, be fired for being intelligent, but......
However, with BAs cost base, and the extra costs of being at LHR, he cannot compete with them.
I suggest that that one of his MBAs needs to point this out to him. They would , of course, be fired for being intelligent, but......
Jan 2, 2018, 2:37 am
#107
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Programs: Mucci Blue, BAEC Gold, Blockbuster Video card
Posts: 1,378
Beat me to it - I am absolutely in agreement on this. Short haul it shouldn't be that big a deal just to sit up straight. I almost never recline my seat in economy SH as I am so entrenched in my Britishness (the good kind, not the Brexit kind) that I would be mortified if I inconvenienced the person behind.. Plus to be honest, I actually think that small amount of recline on an economy seat just makes more pressure on the lower back - I don't think it's more comfortable.
Jan 2, 2018, 2:55 am
#108
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Manchester but from Yorkshire better known as Gods country
Programs: BA Gold, , Sandals plat
Posts: 839
i didn’t notice the pitch as I won the sprint across the apron to get an exit row. It was the experience I was referring to, which is why I now understand the expression cattle class. Held in a non air conditioned gate at ALC in 30 degrees Celsius even though aircraft still hadn’t arrived. The sprint to get the best seats, with the disabled passengers at the front of the gate literally being pushed out of the way, the constant sell on board and finally those stupid on time arrivals horns even though we were 15 mins late. I pointed out the late arrival to which the cabin crew replied that anything under 20 mins was considered in time. I asked whether the same principle would be applied if I arrived 15 mins after check in had closed.
Jan 2, 2018, 3:15 am
#109
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,257
For anyone claiming that the new, thinner, non-reclining seats will not lead to a reduction in passenger comfort, firstly, ha. Secondly, why exactly are BA not also fitting the same design for CE at the front of the plane then?
Jan 2, 2018, 3:33 am
#110
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, IHG Diamond
Posts: 356
Customer feedback has revealed that only those aft of row 13 want the pleasure delivered by a new Recaro seat. As such, we have installed them for those customers only!
Jan 2, 2018, 3:46 am
#111
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London
Posts: 6,265
I like the concept of USB or power or both in every row.
Having different seats in J to differentiate is also nice.
No recline doesn't worry me, but I know many who do want it (even if they never use it!... It is a differentiator to Ryanair). Moving map, well I enjoy looking at it, but can survive without it. Will be interesting to see what the WiFi solution provides.
But overall, I can't see this being a good thing, but full judgement will come when I have my first flight on the new planes.
Having different seats in J to differentiate is also nice.
No recline doesn't worry me, but I know many who do want it (even if they never use it!... It is a differentiator to Ryanair). Moving map, well I enjoy looking at it, but can survive without it. Will be interesting to see what the WiFi solution provides.
But overall, I can't see this being a good thing, but full judgement will come when I have my first flight on the new planes.
Jan 2, 2018, 3:57 am
#112
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: BAEC bronze
Posts: 52
I too noticed this on my sole Vueling flight back from Barcelona last August [no-smoking sign replaced by electronic device sign]. It was also the newest aircraft on which I'd ever knowingly flown, at just a few weeks old. Experiencing a delay in pushing back though meant I really noticed how uncomfortable the seats were by the time we'd got to London.
Jan 2, 2018, 4:29 am
#113
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: Executive Club: Gold - Flying Blue: Gold
Posts: 1,382
Spot on!!! Best reaction here. But hey, you Can’t possibly be one of those passengers that want everything for nothing!
Jan 2, 2018, 4:31 am
#114
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The North
Posts: 1,848
For me, I don't think a non-reclinable seat for short haul is itself the real issue - up to say 1hr30 or so.
The problem is two linked concerns. Firstly, how comfortable (or otherwise) are these new, very thin seats - even on short sectors? I've had back pain from even supposedly comfortable car seats in journeys under an hour before, because they didn't provide decent support for my lower back.
Secondly, once you go above 1hr30, and especially over 2 hours, a non-adjustable seat can become something of a problem simply because you're in one position/angle for a long period of time. It isn't always possible/convenient to get up and walk around. In these circumstances, the ability to vary the seat back angle can make a huge difference.
We will see… I will reserve judgment until I travel on one, but I can't say I'm looking forward to it!
The problem is two linked concerns. Firstly, how comfortable (or otherwise) are these new, very thin seats - even on short sectors? I've had back pain from even supposedly comfortable car seats in journeys under an hour before, because they didn't provide decent support for my lower back.
Secondly, once you go above 1hr30, and especially over 2 hours, a non-adjustable seat can become something of a problem simply because you're in one position/angle for a long period of time. It isn't always possible/convenient to get up and walk around. In these circumstances, the ability to vary the seat back angle can make a huge difference.
We will see… I will reserve judgment until I travel on one, but I can't say I'm looking forward to it!
Jan 2, 2018, 4:51 am
#115
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,164
I believe I have flown on the new Recaro slimline seats, since they are installed in the newest Vueling aircraft. Once. Never again. The lack of recline is not really an issue for a short flight and let‘s face it, even reclining seats these days do not give a comfortable angle. The real issue is that these seats are as hard as planks of wood and extremely short. This gives the (visible) impression of legroom being adequate but is only due to the seat length from the backrest reducing down to about 40cm, some 5cm less than we are used to. I am not tall at 5‘7“ (1m72) but my knees were firmly in the forward passengers back. This is really not the way I choose to travel and that one flight was sufficient to decide to never put myself through that again.
Others that have flown these seats seem to agree:
http://www.airlinequality.com/seat-r...ling-airlines/
http://www.airlinequality.com/seat-r...ling-airlines/
Jan 2, 2018, 5:18 am
#116
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: BAEC GGL/CR; Hilton Diamond; Mucci des Puccis
Posts: 5,612
This is where Cruz' strategy unravels.
As a business traveller who tends to use EasyJet shorthaul, IF the prices come down to sub EasyJet levels or the same, I'll prefer BA economy, because I have status and can sidestep some of the problems - my travel bookers won't contemplate it otherwise, they're not incentivised on what I do or don't spend at the airport on food and drink, they get paid on the ticket price savings.. Sounds good for Cruz so far: more business bookings.
But let's assume status benefits costs about £25 per lounge visit, there goes the margin on the business travellers taking cheap flights unless BA can put prices up to a premium over LCC. And they can't.
For the bulk of travellers contemplating EasyJet v. British Airways, it's a price consideration so price matching is critical. EasyJet and Ryanair will win that, because they have lower airport costs and they won't want to give ground in their home turf anyway. Also their operations and staffing are built around being efficient and lean (it's a joy watching the perpetual motion of a good EasyJet crew on a 1.5 hour flight, but that extends throughout their businesses). But this is where Cruz has decided to throw down the gauntlet. In order to have a chance on price, he has to degrade customer experience, and even if he ends up at the same service delivery point or better, people accept degrading of standards less readily than stable but lower standards. The cabin crew - at the coalface and bearing the brunt of any complaining - will resent the changes, will be wondering how the cost cutting will hit them next, and will not buy into doing the small discretionary stuff that can transform the experience. Everything works against the strategy.
And it's not just in the cheap seats. The experience at the front is markedly worse, as he's having to slice and dice things as basic as food loading to get costs right down. I don't give a tinkers cuss about fold-down screens, I don't even mind a slightly uncomfortable seat that doesn't recline if I'm in economy, but I do get a bit sniffy if the food choices are poor when I'm paying four or five times the economy fare. Or if there's a procession of economy passengers brushing past me to use the CE toilet because there's a 30 person queue at the back for the single toilet. So my willingness to pay a premium is eroded, I'll just use my status to sit in an exit row and book a HBO fare. If my status doesn't bring me benefits in future, I'll choose the cheapest fare. You can't hermetically seal the experiences at front and back.
This isn't rocket science. Cruz has himself locked into this crazy Tesco strategy of being at the same time premium and low cost. He isn't showing any signs of changing tack on the big stuff, so I guess he's committed now. Interesting times.
As a business traveller who tends to use EasyJet shorthaul, IF the prices come down to sub EasyJet levels or the same, I'll prefer BA economy, because I have status and can sidestep some of the problems - my travel bookers won't contemplate it otherwise, they're not incentivised on what I do or don't spend at the airport on food and drink, they get paid on the ticket price savings.. Sounds good for Cruz so far: more business bookings.
But let's assume status benefits costs about £25 per lounge visit, there goes the margin on the business travellers taking cheap flights unless BA can put prices up to a premium over LCC. And they can't.
For the bulk of travellers contemplating EasyJet v. British Airways, it's a price consideration so price matching is critical. EasyJet and Ryanair will win that, because they have lower airport costs and they won't want to give ground in their home turf anyway. Also their operations and staffing are built around being efficient and lean (it's a joy watching the perpetual motion of a good EasyJet crew on a 1.5 hour flight, but that extends throughout their businesses). But this is where Cruz has decided to throw down the gauntlet. In order to have a chance on price, he has to degrade customer experience, and even if he ends up at the same service delivery point or better, people accept degrading of standards less readily than stable but lower standards. The cabin crew - at the coalface and bearing the brunt of any complaining - will resent the changes, will be wondering how the cost cutting will hit them next, and will not buy into doing the small discretionary stuff that can transform the experience. Everything works against the strategy.
And it's not just in the cheap seats. The experience at the front is markedly worse, as he's having to slice and dice things as basic as food loading to get costs right down. I don't give a tinkers cuss about fold-down screens, I don't even mind a slightly uncomfortable seat that doesn't recline if I'm in economy, but I do get a bit sniffy if the food choices are poor when I'm paying four or five times the economy fare. Or if there's a procession of economy passengers brushing past me to use the CE toilet because there's a 30 person queue at the back for the single toilet. So my willingness to pay a premium is eroded, I'll just use my status to sit in an exit row and book a HBO fare. If my status doesn't bring me benefits in future, I'll choose the cheapest fare. You can't hermetically seal the experiences at front and back.
This isn't rocket science. Cruz has himself locked into this crazy Tesco strategy of being at the same time premium and low cost. He isn't showing any signs of changing tack on the big stuff, so I guess he's committed now. Interesting times.
Jan 2, 2018, 6:16 am
#117
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: London
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 1,282
I'm a bit confused over what seats BA will be installing? I've flown easyJet flights which had grey seats (with white squares?) and they were very uncomfortable. However, I've also flown a recent flight which had black and orange seats and they were surprisingly comfortable even on a 4 hour flight.
If BA are fitting the latter type of seats then it's not entirely bad news.
If BA are fitting the latter type of seats then it's not entirely bad news.
Jan 2, 2018, 6:53 am
#118
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Trier, Germany
Programs: BA Gold (GGL+CCR)
Posts: 13
Based on Recaro´s press release they are installing the "Recaro SL3510".
Here is the press release including pictures (sorry its in German). https://de.recaro-as.com/presse/pres...rt-sl3510.html
The "SL3510" is already used by EasyJet and TAP Portugal...
By the way. TAP is also using two different seats for their A320 fleet... In the back of the cabin they have the SL3510 and in the front they are using the BL3530 (this seat comes with a mount for your mobile device/tablet... which is actually pretty nice).
It is a shame BA is going to get these new slime line seats. I always loved the current seats... it was (is) much better then what Lufthansa has to offer on their short haul fleet...
Here is the press release including pictures (sorry its in German). https://de.recaro-as.com/presse/pres...rt-sl3510.html
The "SL3510" is already used by EasyJet and TAP Portugal...
By the way. TAP is also using two different seats for their A320 fleet... In the back of the cabin they have the SL3510 and in the front they are using the BL3530 (this seat comes with a mount for your mobile device/tablet... which is actually pretty nice).
It is a shame BA is going to get these new slime line seats. I always loved the current seats... it was (is) much better then what Lufthansa has to offer on their short haul fleet...
Jan 2, 2018, 6:57 am
#119
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
i didn’t notice the pitch as I won the sprint across the apron to get an exit row. It was the experience I was referring to, which is why I now understand the expression cattle class. Held in a non air conditioned gate at ALC in 30 degrees Celsius even though aircraft still hadn’t arrived. The sprint to get the best seats, with the disabled passengers at the front of the gate literally being pushed out of the way, the constant sell on board and finally those stupid on time arrivals horns even though we were 15 mins late. I pointed out the late arrival to which the cabin crew replied that anything under 20 mins was considered in time. I asked whether the same principle would be applied if I arrived 15 mins after check in had closed.
Those were the days when food, allocated seating and seat pitch differentiated BA. Sounds like very soon there will be no difference.
Jan 2, 2018, 7:02 am
#120
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Trier, Germany
Programs: BA Gold (GGL+CCR)
Posts: 13
I'm a bit confused over what seats BA will be installing? I've flown easyJet flights which had grey seats (with white squares?) and they were very uncomfortable. However, I've also flown a recent flight which had black and orange seats and they were surprisingly comfortable even on a 4 hour flight.
If BA are fitting the latter type of seats then it's not entirely bad news.
If BA are fitting the latter type of seats then it's not entirely bad news.
