Nov 13, 2018, 12:10 am
Last edit by: Scotflyer80
Currently these aircraft are based in LHR T5. The registrations are:
A320neo
G-TTNA
G-TTNB
G-TTNC
G-TTND
G-TTNE
G-TTNF
G-TTNG
G-TTNH
G-TTNI
G-TTNJ
G-TTNK
G-TTNL
G-TTNM
G-TTNO
A321neo
G-NEOP
G-NEOR
G-NEOS
G-NEOT
G-NEOU
G-NEOV
G-NEOW
G-NEOX
G-NEOY
G-NEOZ
A320neo
G-TTNA
G-TTNB
G-TTNC
G-TTND
G-TTNE
G-TTNF
G-TTNG
G-TTNH
G-TTNI
G-TTNJ
G-TTNK
G-TTNL
G-TTNM
G-TTNO
A321neo
G-NEOP
G-NEOR
G-NEOS
G-NEOT
G-NEOU
G-NEOV
G-NEOW
G-NEOX
G-NEOY
G-NEOZ
NEOs and a couple of SH changes
Jan 1, 2018, 1:55 pm
#91
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brighton, UK
Programs: BA Gold, IC Ambassador, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Fairmont Platinum
Posts: 3,166
Jan 1, 2018, 2:00 pm
#92
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brighton, UK
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I hear the seats are significantly less comfortable than current model.
In seat power good, rest seems bad, certainly on the face of it makes it look less attractive to me at least.
Ditching duty free just before Brexit? You can see how far BA management are looking ahead.
In seat power good, rest seems bad, certainly on the face of it makes it look less attractive to me at least.
Ditching duty free just before Brexit? You can see how far BA management are looking ahead.
Jan 1, 2018, 2:52 pm
#94
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Many companies, including BA, otherwise they would not continuously pay to measure exactly that nor worry about it when it declines as sharply as it has for BA of late. It’s not as though the BA NPS studies discussed on this forum in recent months had been either requested, brought about, or conducted by students.
Jan 1, 2018, 2:59 pm
#95
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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Actually, the IFE has probably been the single most frequent complaint I can remember people voicing about CWLCY. However, many thought this was compensated by pre-clearance, the very late check in limit, internet onboard etc.
Jan 1, 2018, 3:29 pm
#96
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Except on short haul like MAN/CDG/AMS, you are talking about £5 per person per sector (revenue wise) to carry 75KGs per adult with 23KGs hand luggage and 23KGs hold luggage and the 50Kgs of the seat. So BA will carry almost 200KGs per added passenger to get the £5 revenue per flight. And for the $50,000 seats cost, you need to sell 10,000 tickets to just to cover the cost of the new seats. Then you start to recover the added fuel costs...Your myth is that more seats = more passengers = more revenue. This does not happen unless you have a perfect market condition (i.e., unlimited demand). The real condition is more like:
more seats = more opportunity to sell a seat cheaper to steal from competitors = when fully sold there might be more revenue if you are lucky; and
more seats = extra cost per plane = extra cost to calculate take-off weight = extra cost per trip due to added weight and emergency equipment
However, more revenue does not mean more profit. If you have to have a higher cost to chase the rubbish yield then you are defeating the object to make more money.
And your equation TV screens + moving map + video equipment = no extra revenue = does not justify the extra weight carried is not true neither.
Overhead screens at this moment is a competition differentiate point, an USP when you compare to easyJet, Ryanair etc.. It does not cost extra as the fees are previously negotiated and maintenance is in-house (at least currently). I don't think then weight of the overhead screen is heavier than a normal Y seats. The heavy ones everyone talks about is the seatback screens which can add a lot of weight to the plane. Take away the USP, you will have to work harder to sell more seats.
As I said math is wonderful. There is nothing wrong to believe (More seats = more passengers = more revenue = justifies the additional weight carried), as BA is doing successfully with its Club World product and that is how they made money. But in the case of short haul business, the math might be different.
more seats = more opportunity to sell a seat cheaper to steal from competitors = when fully sold there might be more revenue if you are lucky; and
more seats = extra cost per plane = extra cost to calculate take-off weight = extra cost per trip due to added weight and emergency equipment
However, more revenue does not mean more profit. If you have to have a higher cost to chase the rubbish yield then you are defeating the object to make more money.
And your equation TV screens + moving map + video equipment = no extra revenue = does not justify the extra weight carried is not true neither.
Overhead screens at this moment is a competition differentiate point, an USP when you compare to easyJet, Ryanair etc.. It does not cost extra as the fees are previously negotiated and maintenance is in-house (at least currently). I don't think then weight of the overhead screen is heavier than a normal Y seats. The heavy ones everyone talks about is the seatback screens which can add a lot of weight to the plane. Take away the USP, you will have to work harder to sell more seats.
As I said math is wonderful. There is nothing wrong to believe (More seats = more passengers = more revenue = justifies the additional weight carried), as BA is doing successfully with its Club World product and that is how they made money. But in the case of short haul business, the math might be different.
It is a failure to show any understanding of this that confuses me the most.
Let's take a flight where BA knows it can sell 10 seats at £300, 50 seats at £150, 50 seats at £100, 50 seats at £50. That is 160. They then dump the rest at, say, £35. The extra seats they put in will be sold at £35 or even less, because creating supply does not create demand in this case. On flights which BA cannot currently fill with 170ish seats, those extra 12 seats will generate £0 revenue.
This is why it gets dangerous. 12 x one-way seats at £35 have a base fare of £2. That is all BA gets after the Heathrow PSC (£19.30) and APD (£13). Total extra income per flight = £24 if 100% full. That £24 is easily lost if one person paying £50 for that sector (£23 base fare) changes airline because they want more toilets / find ultra-thin seats too hard / want some overhead locker space etc.
Last edited by Raffles; Jan 1, 2018 at 3:35 pm
Jan 1, 2018, 3:47 pm
#97
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Chelsea
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,226
Jan 1, 2018, 4:03 pm
#98
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,207
The extra seats will - under standard laws of economics - be sold at the same or less than the lowest existing seat price for that flight.
It is a failure to show any understanding of this that confuses me the most.
Let's take a flight where BA knows it can sell 10 seats at £300, 50 seats at £150, 50 seats at £100, 50 seats at £50. That is 160. They then dump the rest at, say, £35. The extra seats they put in will be sold at £35 or even less, because creating supply does not create demand in this case. On flights which BA cannot currently fill with 170ish seats, those extra 12 seats will generate £0 revenue.
This is why it gets dangerous. 12 x one-way seats at £35 have a base fare of £2. That is all BA gets after the Heathrow PSC (£19.30) and APD (£13). Total extra income per flight = £24 if 100% full. That £24 is easily lost if one person paying £50 for that sector (£23 base fare) changes airline because they want more toilets / find ultra-thin seats too hard / want some overhead locker space etc.
It is a failure to show any understanding of this that confuses me the most.
Let's take a flight where BA knows it can sell 10 seats at £300, 50 seats at £150, 50 seats at £100, 50 seats at £50. That is 160. They then dump the rest at, say, £35. The extra seats they put in will be sold at £35 or even less, because creating supply does not create demand in this case. On flights which BA cannot currently fill with 170ish seats, those extra 12 seats will generate £0 revenue.
This is why it gets dangerous. 12 x one-way seats at £35 have a base fare of £2. That is all BA gets after the Heathrow PSC (£19.30) and APD (£13). Total extra income per flight = £24 if 100% full. That £24 is easily lost if one person paying £50 for that sector (£23 base fare) changes airline because they want more toilets / find ultra-thin seats too hard / want some overhead locker space etc.
Jan 1, 2018, 4:20 pm
#99
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
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I am not so sure this a true reflection of the current landscape as it does not account for yield management. To put it in simple terms, European airlines are adopting densification as a way of working their assets harder to ensure they are in a more advantageous position to accommodate last minute full fare customers.
Great idea except a) you can already leave some empty seats via yield management, b) even if strong of bladder and low of height (to fit in the new loo) that person is likely to know that his £500 last minute seat will get him a middle seat beyond row 12 with an increased chance of his carry-on being forcibly removed and book elsewhere .....
Jan 1, 2018, 4:26 pm
#100
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
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So ... you add seats with no intention of selling them, to improve your chance of selling one at £500 at the last minute?!
Great idea except a) you can already leave some empty seats via yield management, b) even if strong of bladder and low of height (to fit in the new loo) that person is likely to know that his £500 last minute seat will get him a middle seat beyond row 12 with an increased chance of his carry-on being forcibly removed and book elsewhere .....
Jan 1, 2018, 4:35 pm
#101
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,571
If flights are currently full, or they reduced the number of flights (for example there are currently 4 flights a day between LHR and BSL), then it makes sense.
Jan 1, 2018, 4:40 pm
#102
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,207
So ... you add seats with no intention of selling them, to improve your chance of selling one at £500 at the last minute?!
Great idea except a) you can already leave some empty seats via yield management, b) even if strong of bladder and low of height (to fit in the new loo) that person is likely to know that his £500 last minute seat will get him a middle seat beyond row 12 with an increased chance of his carry-on being forcibly removed and book elsewhere .....
Jan 1, 2018, 6:18 pm
#103
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London Stratford, E7
Programs: BAEC Gold! Thanks to FT
Posts: 3,367
In the main I like BA. Indeed along with the help of FT I changed my leisure travel pattern to obtain Gold but I’ve found out that AY isn’t a bad SH J Class. AA J Class is my favourite. CX J loungers are on a par with BA FIrst IMO etc.
CE old band 3 flights, Prague for example used to have some pretty good catering in main meal times. Now following a revamp you get a panini and bread roll if lucky.... or half a panini if not, so with a review in April that’s taken a year to review(backtrack) any changes. Will they have the face to backtrack on seats as they certainly won’t with BOB it seems and I’m wondering if that’s ACs baby and he’s just too stubborn to admit defeat.
I imagine BA will offer an app based IFE similar to Virgin trains Beam where you can view movies, tv, read books, play games and listen to music as most of us have smartphones or tablets,
interesting times ahead it seems for BA and it’s passengers/staff. I’m sure that it will be fully disected and discussed on FT
Jan 1, 2018, 6:21 pm
#104
Suspended
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