First cabin 'closed off' to MAD but then hen party 'upgraded' into it on board
Apr 15, 2017, 12:48 pm
#106
Original Poster
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Asked the CSM once before doors closed, only after I saw the 'upgrades'. Hardly prying, as it was impossible to miss.
Of course I fully expected to be bashed in this thread, which is why the addendum to my original post acknowledged that I did indeed receive what I paid for and my awareness that the captain's decision is final.
The detail regarding the hen party was included because in my opinion being part of a hen party wasn't an operational reason to use the F cabin. How many times do honeymooners post on here asking whether they'll be upgraded only to be chased away saying it's not an operational reason?
I might well take a break from this thread but only because my wife is complaining that posting on Flyertalk is a waste of holiday time.
Of course I fully expected to be bashed in this thread, which is why the addendum to my original post acknowledged that I did indeed receive what I paid for and my awareness that the captain's decision is final.
The detail regarding the hen party was included because in my opinion being part of a hen party wasn't an operational reason to use the F cabin. How many times do honeymooners post on here asking whether they'll be upgraded only to be chased away saying it's not an operational reason?
I might well take a break from this thread but only because my wife is complaining that posting on Flyertalk is a waste of holiday time.
Apr 15, 2017, 12:49 pm
#107
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Apr 15, 2017, 12:51 pm
#108
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Sorry - I missed that bit and nearly missed it again. So there were at least three of you? You seriously expected the CSM to put three of you up there? Grief, I've heard the lot now, that really takes some nerve. I wouldn't have dared, and my husband says that I have more front than Brighton.
Apr 15, 2017, 12:53 pm
#109
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I asked a little while after booking (after reading the MAD 777 thread). I was told that it would only be used as overflow, which I accepted. I asked a few days prior to departure when ordering my son's child meal, as I could see the cabin was filling up. I didn't want the presence of our infant son to disadvantage us, as a little lock symbol appears over the adult associated with the infant and I didn't want us to fall victim to a case of 'computer says no' if they were using the F cabin. I was then told to ask at check in, which I did. Check in asked me to ask at the lounge and the lounge asked me to ask at the gate.
In my experience with BA, you do have to keep checking on things otherwise in the various handovers of seating control as departure approaches, with an infant, the seating can often get locked and one is overlooked for cabin rolls etc.
It was a case of being told at every stage that the cabin wasn't being used, then when I saw it WAS being used onboard, I asked if we could move into it and was given an aggressive reply. Just because I am a GCH doesn't mean it isn't a special family trip for us either.
In my experience with BA, you do have to keep checking on things otherwise in the various handovers of seating control as departure approaches, with an infant, the seating can often get locked and one is overlooked for cabin rolls etc.
It was a case of being told at every stage that the cabin wasn't being used, then when I saw it WAS being used onboard, I asked if we could move into it and was given an aggressive reply. Just because I am a GCH doesn't mean it isn't a special family trip for us either.
Again I think this may be a wind up, if so well done.
Apr 15, 2017, 12:56 pm
#110
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The detail regarding the hen party was included because in my opinion being part of a hen party wasn't an operational reason to use the F cabin. How many times do honeymooners post on here asking whether they'll be upgraded only to be chased away saying it's not an operational reason?
Honeymooning couples don't tend to get particularly loud, but any large group can get quite loud, particularly in a party mood. As it was reportedly an early morning flight, it's extra important to allow other passengers a quiet environment.
I certainly wouldn't begrudge their decision, even though I would perhaps be a bit disappointed to miss out on sitting in an F seat. Mind you I'd probably make a hasty retreat to CW as soon as they get loud!
Maybe they did get loud and possibly obnoxious, so the outcome might have been in your favour after all even if it hand't originally been to your liking.
Um.... also, I assume you weren't in women's clothes. You might have disqualified yourself from the hen party that way...
Last edited by LTN Phobia; Apr 15, 2017 at 1:20 pm
Apr 15, 2017, 12:56 pm
#111
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Is it really worth getting upset about?
Life's too short, go and have fun with the family.
Apr 15, 2017, 12:58 pm
#112
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Fascinating thread- and mostly in the right spirit even if the OP has taken a bit of a hammering.
At most I would have maybe grumbled to myself a bit and maybe commented on here whilst trying hard not to sound like I cared too much. I would certainly not have raised it with the CSM. The OP does seem to have become overly pre-occupied with what is, objectively and in the broader scheme of things, a very minor point.
I understand that the problem is mainly with the CSM's attitude, but I also get the impression that the OP was spoiling for a fight, because having been told the CSM's position, and having expressed his view that it was unfair, I am not sure why the conversation went on- I can only imagine that the OP continued to insist on being moved, which seems OTT.
I suppose this is an example of the famed DYKWIA syndrome, but then again we all display it from time to time. It is interesting that CIHY indicated that the situation had not been handled well. What should have happened? It seems to me that once the passengers had been moved and the OP had borne witness to this, the crew were on a bit of a hiding to nothing.
Unless the CSM was aggressive or rude (which is never acceptable) I would have thought that this is less worthy of a CS complaint than a lot of the more mundane things that are described on here.
At most I would have maybe grumbled to myself a bit and maybe commented on here whilst trying hard not to sound like I cared too much. I would certainly not have raised it with the CSM. The OP does seem to have become overly pre-occupied with what is, objectively and in the broader scheme of things, a very minor point.
I understand that the problem is mainly with the CSM's attitude, but I also get the impression that the OP was spoiling for a fight, because having been told the CSM's position, and having expressed his view that it was unfair, I am not sure why the conversation went on- I can only imagine that the OP continued to insist on being moved, which seems OTT.
I suppose this is an example of the famed DYKWIA syndrome, but then again we all display it from time to time. It is interesting that CIHY indicated that the situation had not been handled well. What should have happened? It seems to me that once the passengers had been moved and the OP had borne witness to this, the crew were on a bit of a hiding to nothing.
Unless the CSM was aggressive or rude (which is never acceptable) I would have thought that this is less worthy of a CS complaint than a lot of the more mundane things that are described on here.
Apr 15, 2017, 1:00 pm
#113
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Asked the CSM once before doors closed, only after I saw the 'upgrades'. Hardly prying, as it was impossible to miss.
Of course I fully expected to be bashed in this thread, which is why the addendum to my original post acknowledged that I did indeed receive what I paid for and my awareness that the captain's decision is final.
The detail regarding the hen party was included because in my opinion being part of a hen party wasn't an operational reason to use the F cabin. How many times do honeymooners post on here asking whether they'll be upgraded only to be chased away saying it's not an operational reason?
I might well take a break from this thread but only because my wife is complaining that posting on Flyertalk is a waste of holiday time.
Of course I fully expected to be bashed in this thread, which is why the addendum to my original post acknowledged that I did indeed receive what I paid for and my awareness that the captain's decision is final.
The detail regarding the hen party was included because in my opinion being part of a hen party wasn't an operational reason to use the F cabin. How many times do honeymooners post on here asking whether they'll be upgraded only to be chased away saying it's not an operational reason?
I might well take a break from this thread but only because my wife is complaining that posting on Flyertalk is a waste of holiday time.
Given the number of reasons you say the CSM gave you I find it hard to believe you only asked once. Or clearly you followed up in a fairly hostile manner.
Hint- upgrades don't have to be operational. If crew want to make a nice gesture on a special occasion they have that power, and that's as it should be. Do you genuinely believe you should benefit from anything you ever see anyone around you getting? Most people outside the Bullingdon club grow out of that along with nappies. I hope you don't teach your children this? I'm starting to hope this thread may actually open your mind a little and serve a useful life lesson...
Apr 15, 2017, 1:02 pm
#114
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: LONDON
Posts: 415
You probably need to take a couple of deep breaths and get on with your life. It is a wonderful thing BA did for those girls, they'll probably remember it forever - they got a whole first class cabin to themselves and a cockpit visit. Hell of a way to start a hen party.
All you seem to have done is ruined your day worrying about how seemingly wrong it all was - no-one took anything away from you as a result of this good deed. There is no reason to let you sit in there too, it wasn't a First cabin free-for-all - it was just a good deed.
Of course, this could all be a wind up but it is very entertaining.
All you seem to have done is ruined your day worrying about how seemingly wrong it all was - no-one took anything away from you as a result of this good deed. There is no reason to let you sit in there too, it wasn't a First cabin free-for-all - it was just a good deed.
Of course, this could all be a wind up but it is very entertaining.
Apr 15, 2017, 1:02 pm
#115
Join Date: May 2014
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All those people bashing the OP - what exactly would have been wrong with inviting him and his family into F as well? They were eager to do it; there was available space and the cabin had been opened regardless.
I get that there's a cultural thing in Britain that encourages 'don't make a fuss' thinking. However, ignoring your personal moral outrage about someone trying to get something good for themselves, I fail to see the downside here in extending the courtesy to additional passengers. I don't think as a BA flyer one should appreciate that a CSM got argumentative instead of delivering an easy and amenable solution for everyone involved.
I get that there's a cultural thing in Britain that encourages 'don't make a fuss' thinking. However, ignoring your personal moral outrage about someone trying to get something good for themselves, I fail to see the downside here in extending the courtesy to additional passengers. I don't think as a BA flyer one should appreciate that a CSM got argumentative instead of delivering an easy and amenable solution for everyone involved.
Apr 15, 2017, 1:05 pm
#116
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Though I must admit to struggling on the sympathy or even empathy stakes, nevertheless I offer you a "well done" for keeping a cool head under FT fire! It's difficult in FT-land to avoid a piling in sometimes, I've done it in my time, so don't fret about that aspect. And you seem to have chosen a very sensible wife too - I imagine she won't be disclosing how her hen party went either!
Apr 15, 2017, 1:08 pm
#117
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There's not enough seats in F for an amenable solution for everyone though. Someone's always going to be disappointed.
Apr 15, 2017, 1:10 pm
#118
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As the OP acknowledges, he got what he paid for, but it's not good customer service to make one group of customers explicitly favoured over another. Sometimes it's necessary, but there is a way to do it.
I once flew CE as a blue OSL-LHR, seated in row 1. The cabin crew member made a big show of making sure that the gold sitting next to me got his first choice of meal because she "anticipated a sell out of the more popular meals" while ignoring me. I ended up with no choice at all. Clearly as a gold now, I would benefit from that situation (and have) but it really is not good practice to make paying customers feel that their money is less valuable than others, unless you are giving them a published benefit or there is a good operational reason, and even then you do it discreetly.
(When upgraded ET-CE MXP-LHR this week the gate staff were very apologetic to me and thanked me for cooperating with the "seat change" even though I was getting a free upgrade, presumably because there's no reason to make the passenger behind me think that their money isn't good enough. That's how it should be.)
As for how the CSD here knew that the others would never sit up front - presumably, they had a CIV somewhere between chuff and all, whereas you basically don't get gold without flying in premium cabins at least semi-regularly, so there is logic there - but it's completely irrelevant. If the policy is to upgrade "just because" then it should be first come, first served - but either you offer it only as needed (because the policy is to close the cabin except when necessary) or you offer it until it runs out (i.e., until 12/14 people had moved forward).
I once flew CE as a blue OSL-LHR, seated in row 1. The cabin crew member made a big show of making sure that the gold sitting next to me got his first choice of meal because she "anticipated a sell out of the more popular meals" while ignoring me. I ended up with no choice at all. Clearly as a gold now, I would benefit from that situation (and have) but it really is not good practice to make paying customers feel that their money is less valuable than others, unless you are giving them a published benefit or there is a good operational reason, and even then you do it discreetly.
(When upgraded ET-CE MXP-LHR this week the gate staff were very apologetic to me and thanked me for cooperating with the "seat change" even though I was getting a free upgrade, presumably because there's no reason to make the passenger behind me think that their money isn't good enough. That's how it should be.)
As for how the CSD here knew that the others would never sit up front - presumably, they had a CIV somewhere between chuff and all, whereas you basically don't get gold without flying in premium cabins at least semi-regularly, so there is logic there - but it's completely irrelevant. If the policy is to upgrade "just because" then it should be first come, first served - but either you offer it only as needed (because the policy is to close the cabin except when necessary) or you offer it until it runs out (i.e., until 12/14 people had moved forward).
It was done quietly and with no fuss, which meant nobody else would have felt disadvantaged, like the OP on this thread, and yet she was pro- actively showing great customer service for a GCH. Whilst I was appreciative of the gesture I certainly didn't expect to be treated favourably and told the lady that I had a slight preference for Full English but that it really was not a big deal and that as far as I was concerned everyone in front should get their first choice, that I had eaten in the lounge already etc. - as it happened I got my Full English.
Apr 15, 2017, 1:11 pm
#119
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The only reason that I say it could have been handled better is because the OP says that the CSM gave different reasons for the move, probably due to inexperience or the badgering from the OP, I would have just said it was for commercial reasons and left it at that.
Apr 15, 2017, 1:14 pm
#120
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All those people bashing the OP - what exactly would have been wrong with inviting him and his family into F as well? They were eager to do it; there was available space and the cabin had been opened regardless.
I get that there's a cultural thing in Britain that encourages 'don't make a fuss' thinking. However, ignoring your personal moral outrage about someone trying to get something good for themselves, I fail to see the downside here in extending the courtesy to additional passengers. I don't think as a BA flyer one should appreciate that a CSM got argumentative instead of delivering an easy and amenable solution for everyone involved.
I get that there's a cultural thing in Britain that encourages 'don't make a fuss' thinking. However, ignoring your personal moral outrage about someone trying to get something good for themselves, I fail to see the downside here in extending the courtesy to additional passengers. I don't think as a BA flyer one should appreciate that a CSM got argumentative instead of delivering an easy and amenable solution for everyone involved.
As has had also been pointed out, the party was removed from the J cabin. This was correct in my opinion, so as not to inconvenience other passengers who have paid for and expect a more refined environment especially early in the morning.
The hen party was well contained by the sounds of it, the OP in my opinion would have been on here moaning about their behaviour no doubt had he got his wish and been moved.