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BA 'Mixed Fleet' cabin crew dispute [agreement reached]

BA 'Mixed Fleet' cabin crew dispute [agreement reached]

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Old Oct 22, 17, 9:58 pm   -   Wikipost
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Routes to/from LGW*/LCY/STN are NOT affected. Only flights to/from LHR* are potentially affected. If you think you may be affected, post 2714 (click here) may be helpful.

*The LGW-JFK flight has seen a lot of cancellations for the current strike period.

Current strike period:
  • None

Next announced strike period:

    Previous strike periods:
    • 25th December 2016 from 00:01 for 48 hours. (Strike action was suspended following ACAS discussions and revised offer.)
    • 10th & 11th January 2017
    • 19th January 2017 for 72 hours until 21st January
    • 5th-7th & 9th-11th February 2017
    • 17th-20th February 2017
    • 22nd-25th February 2017
    • 3rd-9th March 2017
    • 16th-19th June 2017 (suspended pending further ACAS talks)
    • 1st-16th July 2017
    • 19th July-1st August 2017
    • 2nd-15th August 2017
    • 16th-30th August 2017

    Routes affected:
    As a possible indication, for the fifth strike period BA announced the following cancellations:
    http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27910044-post2131.html as well as flights to and from Doha on all affected days (17 - 20 February).

    Mixed fleet routes are listed here, though note that other (non Mixed Fleet) flights from Heathrow are also being cancelled.

    Note for context in terms of how many routes might actually be affected: there are about 4000 members of MF (of which ~2,700 are Unite members and therefore eligible to take industrial action) and 15,000 total cabin crew

    Background Details from BA:
    Strike 19th July-1st August
    2nd August-16th August

    Background Details from Unite:
    http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...ty-pay-levels/
    http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...refuses-talks/

    Latest negotiating position:
    Talks at ACAS in June appear to have failed, with a further two week strike commencing 1st July announced on 16th June.

    Key upcoming dates:
    • Latest negotiated position (@ 23rd Oct 2017) between BA & Unite to be balloted. Rumoured that the union is recommending acceptance.

    Ballot results for industrial action:
    • First ballot, November 2016: Yes 79.5%, No 20.5%
    • Second ballot, December 2016: Yes 70%, No 30%
    • Third ballot, March 2017: Yes 56%, No 44%, turnout 72%
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    Old Jul 6, 17, 1:45 am
      #2836  
     
    Join Date: Jan 2007
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    Originally Posted by hungry View Post
    Its called solidarity I think..
    Some agree with the strike , some disagree.. But they are all entitled to their opinion and their choice to work (or not) is their own. I for one would not give a toss what others chose to do as long as they respected my choice to do what I want to do.

    Solidarity is outdated - people have a their own minds. Lets move on , its 2017 not 1984
    sunshinebob is offline  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 2:00 am
      #2837  
     
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    Originally Posted by sunshinebob View Post
    Some agree with the strike , some disagree.. But they are all entitled to their opinion and their choice to work (or not) is their own. I for one would not give a toss what others chose to do as long as they respected my choice to do what I want to do.

    Solidarity is outdated - people have a their own minds. Lets move on , its 2017 not 1984
    We will agree to disagree.
    hungry is offline  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 2:07 am
      #2838  
     
    Join Date: Nov 2015
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    Should the strike prove successful I'm sure the non-striking staff will refuse any pay increase or improved benefits as a result of the actions they failed to support.
    dougzz is online now  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 2:19 am
      #2839  
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    Originally Posted by hungry View Post
    The UK law is quite clear. If you are going to your place of work and there is a picket line (I don't know how it works for Cabin Crew, could be the BA staff entrance to T5) and you are not directly on strike (having not been balloted) then you DO NOT have to go in, and the employer can not discipline you for it- you have the same protection as those protected by the legal ballot.

    So if the non striking cabin crew respected the picket line in the way stated above, as they arrived at the staff door to T5, and all said oh golly a picket line- lets go home, I am sure this dispute would be resolved by now as BA would have no planes flying at all...

    Its called solidarity I think..


    I don't know where this myth that if you have not been balloted yourself for the dispute, you are not allowed to refuse to cross the picket line. I am sure BA put this out to try and scare members of staff into coming in. Wouldn't surprise me if they threatened disciplinary action too. We all know that the UK government are always on the side of the employers rather than the workers in any disputes.
    You have the right to cross a picket line if you don't support the industrial action being taken. If you're a union member and you're disciplined by your union for crossing a picket line, you can complain to an Industrial Tribunal.

    If you're being threatened by colleagues for crossing a picket line, you should report their behaviour to the police.

    If you haven't been able to cross a picket line, you need to convince your employer that you did everything reasonably possible to do so. If your employer considers you didn't make every effort, they may decide that you have joined the industrial action. This means they don't have to pay you.


    There is no reason for those that have not voted to go on strike to refuse to work. Even if not disciplined, the person would not get paid
    Solidarity is Unity or agreement of feeling or action, especially among individuals with a common interest; mutual support within a group. Quite possible to have that without actually going on strike
    Dave Noble is offline  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 2:24 am
      #2840  
     
    Join Date: Aug 2008
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    It is funny when the unions say you should not cross a picket line and respect the democratically expressed will of the voters, yet at the same time are calling for marches and a summer of disruption in an attempt to overthrow the democratically expressed will of the population recently revealed in the general election. While they refuse to respect that result I see absolutely no reason not to cross a picket line if you disagree with the strike ballot.

    There is is no picket line outside the report centre so no one is physically crossing a picket line.
    Waterhorse is offline  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 3:47 am
      #2841  
     
    Join Date: Feb 2005
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    Seeing as most opinion heard here seems to be 'pro-strike', and my previous conversations with cabin crew gave the same impression as to their position, I was very surprised indeed to meet a strongly 'anti-strike' MF CSM. She told me she was extremely happy with her 6 years in BA MF, felt the pay was good, and was quite bitter at the way the strike had gone.
    mikebg is offline  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 4:25 am
      #2842  
     
    Join Date: Oct 2009
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    Originally Posted by dougzz View Post
    Should the strike prove successful I'm sure the non-striking staff will refuse any pay increase or improved benefits as a result of the actions they failed to support.
    And of course will be negotiating any improvements in salary and conditions on their own in the future...
    BlueThroughCrimp is online now  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 6:10 am
      #2843  
     
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    Originally Posted by BlueThroughCrimp View Post
    And of course will be negotiating any improvements in salary and conditions on their own in the future...
    Being part of a union is a choice, part of that choice if the union has bargaining rights with the company, is that you are letting a third party with it's own agenda negotiate pay and T&Cs. Those in the union who do not like this should, if they have any wit, be trying to entice, cajole and encourage non members to join, by demonstrating the benefits of being in said union. Name calling and other oafish behaviour normally has the opposite effect. Suggesting that non members negotiate their own t&cs will be fine, the union though, would have to relinquish negotiating rights first - likely?

    A union is an shop a bit like any other store on the high street, if the wares they are peddling are not good enough you go elsewhere, insulting and being rude to customers is not a good idea, as you will not go and shop there.
    Waterhorse is offline  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 6:23 am
      #2844  
     
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    Originally Posted by Waterhorse View Post
    Suggesting that non members negotiate their own t&cs will be fine, the union though, would have to relinquish negotiating rights first - likely?
    Agreed, unlikely, If they had to stand on their own, what improvement would they get? I'd surmise not very much. This is all hypothetical though.

    What is not hypothetical question, is people who are happy to take any rise, or improvement that others have paid for, either through loss of salary through industrial action, or, even without any dispute taking place, the payment of union dues.
    BlueThroughCrimp is online now  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 7:33 am
      #2845  
     
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    Always make me wonder if the pay was not as advertised them why hasn't Unite simply taken BA to court to get the pay as advertised or promised? Would seem a rather quicker and better way to go as no-one would have been out of pocket by going on strike..

    so make out of that what you will.....
    SonTech is offline  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 7:35 am
      #2846  
     
    Join Date: Dec 2009
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    As a few of us said probably 1000 or more posts ago, sadly the only way for this to really impact BA is for a few thousand MF staff to quit at the same time, which would be impossible to replace quickly.

    Unlike some strikes of the past, it really does feel like Unite has been quite reasonable in their request here (a modest pay raise that more closely aligns with what MF hires were promised, and restoration of flight benefits and bonuses for those that went on strike).

    It's really not clear what BA's end game is here given that the only remaining dispute appears to be the restoration of benefits). Perhaps their goal is to make it painful enough for MF that they won't strike again? Perhaps it is a way to actually reduce costs this year? Or perhaps it is purely not wanting to look like they will give in without a fight?

    It's a pretty drastic contrast with how the large carriers in the US have dealt with their unions as of late, where they've generally worked to give them what they ask for within reason.
    dylanks is offline  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 7:37 am
      #2847  
     
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    Originally Posted by SonTech View Post
    Always make me wonder if the pay was not as advertised them why hasn't Unite simply taken BA to court to get the pay as advertised or promised? Would seem a rather quicker and better way to go as no-one would have been out of pocket by going on strike..

    so make out of that what you will.....
    I'm pretty sure you'll find the pay would have been advertised as 'up to £x'. If they didn't do that - then yes - there's a case.

    Have a look at this CSM role: https://jobs.ba.com/jobs/vacancy/cus...3/description/

    It's quite clear "starting salary" with "potential to earn".

    And indeed - the British Government won a case about teacher pay a while ago which the union brought (which - admittedly - was only seen by the ASA - but still ...) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35758575
    MPH1980 is online now  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 7:43 am
      #2848  
     
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    Originally Posted by dylanks View Post
    As a few of us said probably 1000 or more posts ago, sadly the only way for this to really impact BA is for a few thousand MF staff to quit at the same time, which would be impossible to replace quickly.

    Unlike some strikes of the past, it really does feel like Unite has been quite reasonable in their request here (a modest pay raise that more closely aligns with what MF hires were promised, and restoration of flight benefits and bonuses for those that went on strike).

    It's really not clear what BA's end game is here given that the only remaining dispute appears to be the restoration of benefits). Perhaps their goal is to make it painful enough for MF that they won't strike again? Perhaps it is a way to actually reduce costs this year? Or perhaps it is purely not wanting to look like they will give in without a fight?

    It's a pretty drastic contrast with how the large carriers in the US have dealt with their unions as of late, where they've generally worked to give them what they ask for within reason.
    I would suggest it is mainly that BA want to make it very clear they are not giving in to the unions and that if in the future people do support strikes, MF or otherwise their actions come with consequences and as such might make them think twice about striking or their union actually calling a strike.

    BA believe that the crew are replaceable at the pay they currently offer, as we know BA is not customer focused and as such the fact quick turnaround in the labour market does not worry it in regards impact on customer service. Based on this theory BA are probably correct they have no shortage of people they can hire if current crew quit. In fact it is probably fair to say they want to have a high turnover of staff with MF as it keeps cost down and was one of the reasons for creating MF.

    I think on this one generally the union got it wrong and didn't think BA would play hardball how they have, but the fact is when the impact of strikes can so easily be managed as they have been then Ba really don't need to rush to resolve it.
    UKTraveller4Fun is offline  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 8:53 am
      #2849  
     
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    Originally Posted by BlueThroughCrimp View Post
    Agreed, unlikely, If they had to stand on their own, what improvement would they get? I'd surmise not very much. This is all hypothetical though.

    What is not hypothetical question, is people who are happy to take any rise, or improvement that others have paid for, either through loss of salary through industrial action, or, even without any dispute taking place, the payment of union dues.
    Similarly though, they have no voice in saying what issues the union should talk to company about. It's the sort of issue that is chicken and egg, if the union was doing such a good job people would be members, to do a good job the union needs lots of members. In this case there is a doubt as to whether the union is doing a good job and union membership is not anywhere near universal.

    Either way, insulting those that do not think in accordance with the strikers mindset will not encourage and persuade those non strikers to respect the picket line.

    Last edited by Waterhorse; Jul 6, 17 at 10:27 am
    Waterhorse is offline  
    Old Jul 6, 17, 11:01 am
      #2850  
     
    Join Date: May 2003
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    We're booked to fly LHR-MIA on 28 July. I believe this route can be staffed by MF crew, and the latest strike dates cover our outbound travel. We're travelling in J on reward tickets (using a Amex companion voucher). Any thoughts on whether our travel might be affected by the strike?

    Apologies if this is a stupid question, but I've tried to plough my way through this and the other MF strike thread and not found an answer for the LHR-MIA route.
    rob@rar.org.uk is offline  

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