Tafflyer

So if I have a CE ticket and am downgraded to a single cabin Thomson aircraft, is that EU261 for involuntary downgrade? I believe exceptional circumstances only applies to cancellations and delays, is that correct?

makin'miles

I doubt it.

BA, I'm guessing, would have taken the commercial decision to fly the aircraft back without passengers. So there would be no reason for the crew to be there at all and, regardless, they would have been on legal strike. It'd be BA's problem.

For those who say this is academic and Unite disagrees, great. But Unite's strategy doesn't seem to be working, so maybe it's time to think about this a bit more strategically.

Another option might be for Unite to announce that they will be striking, but then remove only a handful of crew from duty and provide them full pay for the day from the strike fund. Other members of MF could show up to work and get full pay, and BA would have incurred all sorts of costs (Titan charters, additional crew brought in, lost customer confidence), but would they still be obliged to pay those who show up?

Point of this is that Unite need to make this all a lot more unpredictable (and thus costly) if they are going to bring BA to the table with a decent offer. Time to get creative.

Agent69

I've worked in many exotic locations (Cairo and Hong Kong to name 3), and I find it difficult to believe that £72 a day wouldn't get you 3 square meals a day, even in a BA hotel (unless the accommodation had been enhanced to 5*).

Also note that the expenses should cover the difference in cost between eating at home and eating away from home, not the entire bill.

Can I help you

This strike is a slow burning and is causing BA a lot expense and damage, stay strong.

T8191

A fair point. When we started doing serious l/h holidays, I used to factor in the cost savings we were making by not being at home (F&B, Utility costs).

makin'miles

If the GBP3/hour is to be considered fully for expenses, that means that MF CC make as little as GBP12K per year, plus (perhaps) small bonuses. A big chunk of this is supposed to be salary, by BAs own calculations (as well as the tax department), so I find your characterization that CC get GBP72/day for expenses disingenuous.

Agent69

As you say, you're guessing.

If your work requires you to crew a plane to Rio and back, why would BA have any responsibility if you chose to go walk about part way through the trip?

Tafflyer

You keep bringing up the same arguments. The 21K salary that BA says MF crew receive as a minimum includes these payments. So deduct whatever you think the crew need per day away from the BA assertion and you get what BA says the MF crew receive as salary.

If we assume 8 days per month down route and allow expenses of 40% of the 24 hour rate, which is what it seems like HMRC do, then that's nearly 3K per year less, total of 18K which is the amount BA says MF crew receive. That is not a living wage for the Heathrow/Houslow area of anywhere close, and I suspect what the really receive is still less than that.

Agent69

If this is the case why do UNITE keep saying that the starting salary is £12k a year?

Now who's being disingenuous?

makin'miles

if BA make a commercial decision to fly an aircraft empty back to the UK while crew are legally striking, then said crew would not be rostered to work a flight back to the UK one or two days later. Not their problem. And if BA doesn't like it, let them fight it through a labour tribunal.

makin'miles

Well I'm not, for starters :-).

I think its its well established both BA and Unite will bend facts to suit their positions. While here on Flyertalk some of us may have differing opinions, I respectfully think the quality of discussion is much better if we avoid doing the same.

Agent69

The living wage is about £8.25/hr. That may not go far in Houndslow, but the fact is that there are 4,000 MF employees, and I suspect that the majority of them make ends meet without sleeping in cars or having 2 jobs (not that having 2 jobs is unique to MF).

Whether it is a fair and reasonable salary for the work they do is a separate discussion.

Ber2dca

Eh you're missing the point. Why not say then '18k isn't enough for London' rather than broadcasting a false figure.

I don't blame people who try to get better wages but there's different interests at play here. I'm not them, I'm a customer. As a passenger I don't like strikes and I don't like FAs who stay in a job they don't enjoy simply to collect seniority perks either (this is why U.S. airlines suck).

Would I strike if I was them? Probably not. I'd quit and find a new job.

HLaw

Last night I took my usual biweekly BA48 from Seattle and the 777 was at minimum legal cabin crew of 8. While the CSM apologised in advance over the PA the crew really stretched themselves and the service was really untarnished. A great performance by those choosing to work and keep the airline flying.

Whichever side you are on in the strike, BA (and us pax) need to offer a great big thank you to these folks, without their decision to work we would all be suffering considerably (and as a Southern commuter trust me I know what that feels like).

With VS taking over from DL on the SEA-LHR route, BA needs to beware as if you leave me high and dry in Seattle, the decision to fly with the great bearded one will be undertaken, if reluctantly. Rewarding those staff keeping the airline flying is an absolute imperative. How about giving them 11/8ths pay as 8 people did the work of 11 and BA's revenues were the same.

Can I help you

Minimum crew you say, well there's a surprise I thought BA had plenty of crew?