Dec 13, 2016, 11:12 pm
Last edit by: NWIFlyer
Routes to/from LGW*/LCY/STN are NOT affected. Only flights to/from LHR* are potentially affected. If you think you may be affected, post 2714 (click here) may be helpful.
*The LGW-JFK flight has seen a lot of cancellations for the current strike period.
Current strike period:
Next announced strike period:
Previous strike periods:
Routes affected:
As a possible indication, for the fifth strike period BA announced the following cancellations:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27910044-post2131.html as well as flights to and from Doha on all affected days (17 - 20 February).
Mixed fleet routes are listed here, though note that other (non Mixed Fleet) flights from Heathrow are also being cancelled.
Note for context in terms of how many routes might actually be affected: there are about 4000 members of MF (of which ~2,700 are Unite members and therefore eligible to take industrial action) and 15,000 total cabin crew
Background Details from BA:
Strike 19th July-1st August
2nd August-16th August
Background Details from Unite:
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...ty-pay-levels/
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...refuses-talks/
Latest negotiating position:
Talks at ACAS in June appear to have failed, with a further two week strike commencing 1st July announced on 16th June.
Key upcoming dates:
Ballot results for industrial action:
*The LGW-JFK flight has seen a lot of cancellations for the current strike period.
Current strike period:
- None
Next announced strike period:
Previous strike periods:
- 25th December 2016 from 00:01 for 48 hours. (Strike action was suspended following ACAS discussions and revised offer.)
- 10th & 11th January 2017
- 19th January 2017 for 72 hours until 21st January
- 5th-7th & 9th-11th February 2017
- 17th-20th February 2017
- 22nd-25th February 2017
- 3rd-9th March 2017
- 16th-19th June 2017 (suspended pending further ACAS talks)
- 1st-16th July 2017
- 19th July-1st August 2017
- 2nd-15th August 2017
- 16th-30th August 2017
Routes affected:
As a possible indication, for the fifth strike period BA announced the following cancellations:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27910044-post2131.html as well as flights to and from Doha on all affected days (17 - 20 February).
Mixed fleet routes are listed here, though note that other (non Mixed Fleet) flights from Heathrow are also being cancelled.
Note for context in terms of how many routes might actually be affected: there are about 4000 members of MF (of which ~2,700 are Unite members and therefore eligible to take industrial action) and 15,000 total cabin crew
Background Details from BA:
Strike 19th July-1st August
2nd August-16th August
Background Details from Unite:
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...ty-pay-levels/
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...refuses-talks/
Latest negotiating position:
Talks at ACAS in June appear to have failed, with a further two week strike commencing 1st July announced on 16th June.
Key upcoming dates:
- Latest negotiated position (@ 23rd Oct 2017) between BA & Unite to be balloted. Rumoured that the union is recommending acceptance.
Ballot results for industrial action:
- First ballot, November 2016: Yes 79.5%, No 20.5%
- Second ballot, December 2016: Yes 70%, No 30%
- Third ballot, March 2017: Yes 56%, No 44%, turnout 72%
BA 'Mixed Fleet' cabin crew dispute [agreement reached]
Jan 13, 2017, 2:12 pm
#1591
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
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BA are only offering an audit because lots of us have suffered with their untruths and know that they cannot be trusted. Their last letter to me contained a terminological inexactitude. They have great trouble in this regime telling the truth.
Every bit of cost saving - of reducing what the customer gets for their money - is called an enhancement. They now live by spin.
In BAs view, what you and I would call expenses are now included in salary.
Every bit of cost saving - of reducing what the customer gets for their money - is called an enhancement. They now live by spin.
In BAs view, what you and I would call expenses are now included in salary.
Jan 13, 2017, 2:13 pm
#1592
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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Question....There are claims further up this thread of UNITE gaining another 800 Mixed Fleet members since the ballot; what is their status regarding industrial action? Are they covered as they are UNITE members, or are they not covered as they joined following the ballot?
Jan 13, 2017, 2:22 pm
#1593
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Herts, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL, HH Diamond.
Posts: 3,184
Jan 13, 2017, 2:24 pm
#1594
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
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I appreciate that there is a fundamental breakdown in trust between company and workforce, which may be driving your views (I don't suppose that Willie Walsh was on too many Christmas card lists this year). However, people who sit on the other side of the fence may be equally sceptical of the motives of UNITE (for example their apparent reluctance to address the £21k issue).
The broader point I was making is whether it's reasonable to support MF it you don't know if they are asking for a 5% pay rise or 55%?
The broader point I was making is whether it's reasonable to support MF it you don't know if they are asking for a 5% pay rise or 55%?
.I'm also persuaded by the measured way in which actual, live MF members have posted in here. There can't be anyone that hasn't been impressed by the way Lite has calmly articulated the MF position, and those contributions suggest that whatever is being asked for, it's not outrageous. I'm struck that whilst BA and Unite play what is essentially a game, the real people act with more dignity than anyone. More than anything else, that's what influences me to trust CC ahead of BA.
Jan 13, 2017, 2:27 pm
#1595
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
From Simon Calder's article:
But the two sides do not agree on the issue at the heart of the dispute: how much Mixed Fleet cabin crew actually earn in a year.
The union says: “Basic pay starts at just £12,192 with £3 an hour flying pay.” The £3 is paid for all hours on duty, whether or not the employee is in the air. Unite estimates that the average member of Mixed Fleet earns £16,000 annually, including allowances.
Yet BA says it has checked the pay of full-time Mixed Fleet crew, and the least that anyone earned in a year was £21,151. The average was over £24,000 — 50 per cent higher than the union’s estimate.
A spokesperson for BA said: “Our audited payroll data, which we’ve offered to share with Unite, includes the salaries of all Mixed Fleet crew, including new starters on basic pay of £12,192. We made it clear that our figure was based on those working full time.”
But the two sides do not agree on the issue at the heart of the dispute: how much Mixed Fleet cabin crew actually earn in a year.
The union says: “Basic pay starts at just £12,192 with £3 an hour flying pay.” The £3 is paid for all hours on duty, whether or not the employee is in the air. Unite estimates that the average member of Mixed Fleet earns £16,000 annually, including allowances.
Yet BA says it has checked the pay of full-time Mixed Fleet crew, and the least that anyone earned in a year was £21,151. The average was over £24,000 — 50 per cent higher than the union’s estimate.
A spokesperson for BA said: “Our audited payroll data, which we’ve offered to share with Unite, includes the salaries of all Mixed Fleet crew, including new starters on basic pay of £12,192. We made it clear that our figure was based on those working full time.”
Jan 13, 2017, 2:34 pm
#1596
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 935
From Simon Calder's article:
But the two sides do not agree on the issue at the heart of the dispute: how much Mixed Fleet cabin crew actually earn in a year.
The union says: “Basic pay starts at just £12,192 with £3 an hour flying pay.” The £3 is paid for all hours on duty, whether or not the employee is in the air. Unite estimates that the average member of Mixed Fleet earns £16,000 annually, including allowances.
Yet BA says it has checked the pay of full-time Mixed Fleet crew, and the least that anyone earned in a year was £21,151. The average was over £24,000 — 50 per cent higher than the union’s estimate.
A spokesperson for BA said: “Our audited payroll data, which we’ve offered to share with Unite, includes the salaries of all Mixed Fleet crew, including new starters on basic pay of £12,192. We made it clear that our figure was based on those working full time.”
But the two sides do not agree on the issue at the heart of the dispute: how much Mixed Fleet cabin crew actually earn in a year.
The union says: “Basic pay starts at just £12,192 with £3 an hour flying pay.” The £3 is paid for all hours on duty, whether or not the employee is in the air. Unite estimates that the average member of Mixed Fleet earns £16,000 annually, including allowances.
Yet BA says it has checked the pay of full-time Mixed Fleet crew, and the least that anyone earned in a year was £21,151. The average was over £24,000 — 50 per cent higher than the union’s estimate.
A spokesperson for BA said: “Our audited payroll data, which we’ve offered to share with Unite, includes the salaries of all Mixed Fleet crew, including new starters on basic pay of £12,192. We made it clear that our figure was based on those working full time.”
To get to the average of £24k, this would equate to another 950 hours a year paid.
Jan 13, 2017, 2:36 pm
#1597
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
I struggle to see how the MF crew are picking up a minimum of £8959 of salary with £3 p.h. allowances, even acknowledging that this is not based on hours worked but hours to/from base. It still works out with them being paid over 60 hours per week when holidays are accounted for.
To get to the average of £24k, this would equate to another 950 hours a year paid.
To get to the average of £24k, this would equate to another 950 hours a year paid.
Jan 13, 2017, 3:00 pm
#1598
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I struggle to see how the MF crew are picking up a minimum of £8959 of salary with £3 p.h. allowances, even acknowledging that this is not based on hours worked but hours to/from base. It still works out with them being paid over 60 hours per week when holidays are accounted for.
To get to the average of £24k, this would equate to another 950 hours a year paid.
To get to the average of £24k, this would equate to another 950 hours a year paid.
Jan 13, 2017, 3:04 pm
#1599
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
Same here. Since they both agree on the bottom basic pay, instead of an audit which is just a gimmick to delay things and gain time, BA could give an immediate example of what the £21xxx is made of in addition to the £12192 basic pay. They do not need an audit, just an explanation and it will be easy to figure out if they have a case or are lying.
Jan 13, 2017, 3:11 pm
#1600
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Jan 13, 2017, 3:12 pm
#1601
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,663
The first casualty of war is.....
To be honest pay depends on MF rosters. More time away equates to more money, so long haul rosters are better earners.
A 4 day JNB is 60 hours x £3. Mixed with a few other LH and SH trips. Perhaps 200-300 hours away a month. All x £3. So it could be approx extra £6000 to £9000 depending on rosters before bonus' etc.
To be honest pay depends on MF rosters. More time away equates to more money, so long haul rosters are better earners.
A 4 day JNB is 60 hours x £3. Mixed with a few other LH and SH trips. Perhaps 200-300 hours away a month. All x £3. So it could be approx extra £6000 to £9000 depending on rosters before bonus' etc.
Last edited by BApilotinsider; Jan 13, 2017 at 3:22 pm
Jan 13, 2017, 3:13 pm
#1602
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 59K
Posts: 2,301
I struggle to see how the MF crew are picking up a minimum of £8959 of salary with £3 p.h. allowances, even acknowledging that this is not based on hours worked but hours to/from base. It still works out with them being paid over 60 hours per week when holidays are accounted for.
To get to the average of £24k, this would equate to another 950 hours a year paid.
To get to the average of £24k, this would equate to another 950 hours a year paid.
That said, it is to cover downroute expenses so how much should count as salary is up for debate. (Just ask the taxman!)
Theres also the company wide bonus scheme to add a (tiny) bit.
Jan 13, 2017, 3:14 pm
#1603
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,630
It would be nice to have a breakdown of BA's £21k as well as UNITE's £16k. Whereas BA obviously have the exact figures, I suspect that UNITE are to a certain extent guessing.
Jan 13, 2017, 3:18 pm
#1604
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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I disagree with you. They haven't tried but if the figures they can provide make sense, people will hear, maybe begrudgingly, but they will hear nonetheless. And if people do not believe them, then sure, they can offer an audit, they do not need anyone's authorisation for that, it's their accounts. But unless cabin crew are investment bankers and I was unaware of it, the notion that in the worst case scenario, MF crew make 75% bonus income on top of their basic pay is, indeed, to say the least, surprising.
Jan 13, 2017, 3:20 pm
#1605
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
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PS: BA having access to the figures does not, obviously, imply that this is necessarily what they are presenting us. For example, it would be inconceivable for anyone (in that job or any other) to have expense reimbursement (or what amounts to it) considered as counting towards one's salary, right?