apuleius

just received communication from BA that I am entitled to compensation for delayed flight back in April with BMI under EU regulations.

Weean

(apologies if someone has already posted this suggestion, but it's a long thread, and the suggestion clearly hasn't been taken up)

since the regulations specify that airport distances be calculated by the great circle method, rather than suggestion Googling the distance, would a link to the Great Circle Mapper in post #1 be appropriate?

callmedave

This may have already been answered, but it's a big thread and the situation is a bit awkward. I sent BA an email at the time having a whinge knowing perfectly well they'd cover their backsides (rightly) compensation-wise with the weather, but praising the relevant staff but got a bit of a non-response and I'm not sure that was right.

Back in October (22nd), I was on a flight back from BCN (BA481 in the end) on a day in which the morning flights were all delayed due to fog. There's 3 flights within 3 or so hours coming back from BCN in the evenings, and I was moved from the latest to the earliest to avoid an even longer delay at check-in. A very kind thought by the guy, considering it was a cheap ticket and I had no status. Fast-forward, and my original flight leaves with 90mins delay at the most, and my 'new' flight finally departs with a grand total of 4 hours delay.

There were no refreshments vouchers issued, and no communications at all other than at check-in with advice of what would probably be an hours delay. In terms of words to BA in true British style I didn't feel right going off on one because my delays were in reality down to an act of what would otherwise have been excellent customer service had there not been further delays to the new flight.

Obviously the airlines aren't obliged to pay for delays as a direct result of dodgy weather but does that covers the knock-on operational effects throughout the day too? Where do I stand, if anywhere?

LTN Phobia

It sounds like your new flight still got you to your destination earlier than if you had stayed on your original flight:

- you will have been delayed 90 min on the original flight
- as you were moved to a flight 3 hours earlier, and it was delayed 4 hours, your departure was 1 hour later than your original departure time, which was still 30 min earlier than the departure of your original flight

My feeling is that since the weather issues happened on the same day it is reasonable to consider it fairly direct impact of the weather that you were delayed. My thoughts may have been different if it was the next day.

Once the flight incurs a substantial delay, it's actually very difficult to recover the schedule even when airlines do everything they can, particularly when the delays are across the network (i.e. not an isolated delay at a remote airport that affects just one or two flights, but at LHR where most of BA flights might end up being affected one way or another). I would consider the knock-on delays in this case (as it's on the same day) to be inevitable consequence of the earlier fog issues. Legally it may be looked at differently, but it's just my personal view. As long as I feel they have tried to sort out the situation and did not do anything unreasonable, I tend to forgive airlines.

One thing we need to remember is that airlines hate delays as much as passengers do, if not even more. It's highly inconvenient for them, and potentially very expensive. They don't incur delays for pleasure for sure and they would do what they can to minimise it, even if they aren't always successful.

Personally, I would let this case rest. Passengers on your new flight should have been offered refreshments, but it's a bit hard to claim it when you were actually just 60 min behind your original schedule as far as your personal situation is concerned, just from my personal standpoint, although I am not sure where you would stand legally.

callmedave

The maths doesn't quite add up because I've rounded up departure and arrival times, sorry - I was 2 hours later than my original schedule, as per the flight checker information for the day. That was originally how I viewed it too, but the poor handling of the delays on the ground in BCN really bugged me, and I felt awful for the passengers who had arrived on time for the original flight. They'll have been at the airport in total for 7 hours which is a bit much.

I'm definitely going to let it go, but I was partly curious as to what others would think. Looking at the day's flights from BCN on that route BA did a superb job of managing to get every flight off the ground and keeping the delays under control. It just seems to be that flight where delays got a bit out of control and I figured there was some sort of crewing issue at some point with it.

Thanks for the considered response

LTN Phobia

What tends to happen with delays is that crew members often go 'out of hours' as they cannot legally work beyond certain number of hours. Delays tend to impact crewing as some may be stuck elsewhere or delayed getting in from other airports, all eating into their legal working hours. Even when they start using standby crew members there are some situations where there aren't enough (we can't expect airlines to have a full set of crew on standby for every flight - imagine the airfares going up?) etc. Delays are complicated issues that impact on all sorts of things from aircraft availability and crewing.

Personally, I'd consider crewing issues as part of the weather delays unless there was a grossly inappropriate planning issue involved, such as not having any standby crew at all (highly unlikely with BA).

crystak

I've just received another unsatisfactory email from BA so I'm looking for your guys' opinion whether this is worth chasing further under the EU compensation.

My BA477 on the 21st was shown as cancelled in MMB and I received the email and text telling me that it was cancelled. When I called in to rebook, the BA agent confirmed that it was cancelled due to weather conditions so I got rebooked on a flight in the evening. However, the original flight (BA477) actually operated on time as there was no real cancellation in the first place. When I spoke to someone at the airport about it, they could find no reason as to why that had happened and said it might have been an error with the IT system. She also told me that there were ~30 no shows and the flight operated almost empty, which means that all the other passengers were in the same situation as me.

Anyway, so BA basically replied saying that the flight was cancelled due to weather conditions and there's nothing they could have done. However, that is absolutely not true, as the BA 477 on 21st of Jan operated on time and I remember watching it live on flightstats and cursing because it caused me to miss a meeting that afternoon. So I wrote back to them claiming the EUR250 under denied boarding/ cancellation and yet again they replied reiterating the same thing about weather cancellation and a £20 evoucher.

Now I'm annoyed because:
1) They have lied about the flight being cancelled
2) They're specifically not addressing the regulation at all.

What would you do next?

NickB

Flightstats still shows BA477 to BCN as having taken off just 8 minutes late and landed on time on Jan 21st.

I am far from clear, however, that Reg 261/2004 would apply here. This is not a denied boarding situation, as you did not present yourself by the stipulated time for check-in.

It looks to me like something that would rather fall within the Montreal Convention rather than Reg 261/2004. Under the Montreal Convention (Art 19), the carrier is liable for damage resulting for a delay in transportation unless the carrier can prove that it and its agents have all measures that could reasonably be expected of them to avoid the delay/damage. This would seem not to have happened here and therefore could render BA liable.
The Montreal Convention regime, however, is a damage-based regime rather than a set sum compensation regime. You would therefore need to calculate what damages, if any, the delay has caused you and claim that from BA under Art 19 of the Montreal Convention.

LTN Phobia

Could it have been cancelled and then reinstated but the communication about reinstatement did not happen?

crystak

I guess it is possible, although I checked MMB at 10am on the day and it still showed it as cancelled so I doubt it. Thanks for the replies both of you!

Skinflintonian

Good day everyone. Brand new to this forum which I found whilst searching for guidance. I was on BA15 that left LHR on October 3rd 2012 bound for Sydney via Singapore. This was a BA operated 747. We were a little delayed taking off but no real problem. The flight landed in Singapore as scheduled but we went no further.

A technical problem caused the plane to remain on the ground and where we should have landed early morning on October 5th 2012 we didn't actually arrive in Sydney until late afternoon on October 7th..... a delay of some 60 hours or so. BA eventually chartered a plane from QANTAS to fly us from Singapore to Sydney. Some passengers who were in the know were able to get themselves booked onto other airlines but we were not so fortunate and were really reliant on BA.

Yes we were looked after by BA as we were put in a hotel and provided with meals.As you're all experienced travellers I won't go into the minute details of missing 3 days at our destination, inconvenience etc but a 60 hour delay is a huge amount of time out of a holiday.

I have contacted BA after doing some research and requested compensation under the EU regs as the flight was over 3500 kms and the delay was more than 4 hours. To date I've heard nothing but I acknowledge from reading previous posts that I am one of many potential claimants. Anyone else out there who was on this flight who has had any success with their claim or additional thoughts on the flight being on a second leg which was scheduled to leave Singapore? Our journey originated in London and the same flight number applied all the way to Sydney.

The irony here is that I was offered 600 euros at check in to give up my seat and travel the next day as the flight was oversold but I absolutely had to be in Sydney by October 5th .... hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Steve Oh

How does a compensation claim for out of pocket expenses work - and what are the chances?
My in laws were over during the snow and had their flight cancelled, but only received notification on the way to the airport, ie they were already travelling when the text came through and MMB stated flight was scheduled when the checked.

This resulted in them needing to extend their car hire for another day and pay for another night in their hotel.

Would BA compensate for these?

NickB

Not for car hire but, in principle, reasonable accommodation costs for the extra night as a result of the cancellation should be covered.

stifle

It doesn't. Compensation is a flat amount.

Care (i.e. hotel/meals) is separate and should be covered up to a reasonable amount, including where the exceptional circumstances rule precludes the payment of compensation.

Skinflintonian: I think the question of compensation is clear-cut here if you were booked from LHR-SYD on BA15; if you have had no acknowledgment whatsoever from BA then I would suggest a politely- but strongly-worded letter by recorded delivery reminding them that compensation is supposed to be paid within 7 days, and that you will be lodging a county court claim unless you receive payment of €600 per pax by [insert date perhaps two weeks from today].

If you had separate bookings or flights from LHR-SIN and SIN-SYD (which would include BA11 LHR-SIN and BA15 SIN-SYD) you would have no entitlement.

Paralytic

This may be all Steve Oh can claim for, as per the regs, but there's no harm in asking for the extra day's car hire. BA refunded my non-rebookable airport parking after cancelling my flight the day before it departed.