Last edit by: Global Adventurer
*Equinox $25 Credit will not be issued for ANY products you buy online at their merchandise Shop which is coded as "Equinox The Shop". However, it appears that you can purchase Gift Cards straight off the site, but lowest denomination is $100. Gift cards can be used for merchandise and memberships.
USA personal Platinum annual fee increase to $695, July 2021.
#751
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EWR
Programs: World of Hyatt, Marriott Bonvoy, Hilton Honors, UA Mileage Plus
Posts: 1,255
If wife and I both have the platinum <two seperate accounts) could we book a $400 hotel night using the fine hotels and resorts program split on $200 on each card and get the $200 statement credit for both bookings? Anyone with actual experience making a similar booking?
#752
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Manhattan, Palm Beach Island, San Francisco, Boston, & Hong Kong
Programs: Lifetime United Global Services, Delta Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Ambassador, & Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,165
I just felt over the past a couple of years, AmEx has been treating us like dogs. AmEx throws out the Uber bone. We jump to catch it. We chew the bone and learn how to suck all flavor from it each month. Then AmEx throws out the Saks bone. We learn how to catch and digest it too. Grubhub/Seamless/Shake Shack same story. Now AmEx again throws out the bones like Equinox, Peacock TV, Sirrus XM. I'm just too old to jump on the new bones. AmEx tries to teach old dog new tricks? Not me.
I just do not think this is how a top CC bank should treat their best customers. AmEx does not show any respects to me, or to us. We are all at the mercy of what AmEx likes to offer.....
I just do not think this is how a top CC bank should treat their best customers. AmEx does not show any respects to me, or to us. We are all at the mercy of what AmEx likes to offer.....
However, I do not mind the addition of perks that I cannot use. For example, even as someone who spends a ton of time in Manhattan, I don't really care about the Equinox credit and its existence. Frankly, some of the limitations are hilarious but these limitations don't take away from the parts of the card I value. In a similar sense, while I go out of my way to use the Saks credit every 6 months, I don't value it heavily in my calculations for the card. The additional credits don't matter if you stray from the trap of including them in your valuations.
With all of this being said, I don't see how many people living in rural/suburban areas with cars and major airports 90+ minutes away can justify this card. It is definitely possible but I would argue it is far easier for someone living in a major city (where ride hailing, food delivery, Centurion lounges, and spontaneous weekend vacations are far more common) to justify the AF.
#753
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Rockies
Programs: UA Platinum, HHonors Diamond, Bonvoy occasionally Bonvoyed Mostly
Posts: 428
If wife and I both have the platinum <two seperate accounts) could we book a $400 hotel night using the fine hotels and resorts program split on $200 on each card and get the $200 statement credit for both bookings? Anyone with actual experience making a similar booking?
I don't see any possible way to do this. If the terms and conditions allowed for "pay at the hotel" it could work as you could just ask the property to split the final bill between both cards. However, this credits T&Cs explicitly require a pre-paid reservation, so not sure how you could split across two cards.
My wife and I both have Platinum card as well, so I'd thought about this too, but just don't see how to trigger the credit on the second card. Certainly would be interested if anyone figures this out though.
Regards
My wife and I both have Platinum card as well, so I'd thought about this too, but just don't see how to trigger the credit on the second card. Certainly would be interested if anyone figures this out though.
Regards
#754
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC (LGA, JFK), CT
Programs: Delta Platinum, American Gold, JetBlue Mosaic 4, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 4,895
A common complaint seems to be that Amex is targeting a “different customer” than it was 30 years ago
1) Exactly what kind of customer was that
2) What cards are better at addressing that same customer today
Again, Amex Platinum travel benefits are as good or better than they’ve always been so I’m not getting the thesis that they are moving away from travel
1) Exactly what kind of customer was that
2) What cards are better at addressing that same customer today
Again, Amex Platinum travel benefits are as good or better than they’ve always been so I’m not getting the thesis that they are moving away from travel
#755
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Atlanta Metro
Programs: DL , AC, BA, Hhonors Diamond, IH Platinum, Bonvoy Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,358
I tried to take advantage of the 5x points today on Amex Travel for a flight to Dubai on Emirates. Well, there's a notice that they don't book flights for Emirates any longer. So, I have no idea if I would have saved any $. So, I booked straight with Emirates. I've booked twice before with Amex Travel so I know they used to book flights with Emirates. I got a good price anyway since I have been checking weekly. They have sale going on right now through tomorrow.
#756
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Mexico City
Programs: Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Gold, Marriot Gold, IHG Silver, Choice Platinum, Wyndham Gold
Posts: 3,849
#757
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Manhattan, Palm Beach Island, San Francisco, Boston, & Hong Kong
Programs: Lifetime United Global Services, Delta Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Ambassador, & Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,165
A common complaint seems to be that Amex is targeting a “different customer” than it was 30 years ago
1) Exactly what kind of customer was that
2) What cards are better at addressing that same customer today
Again, Amex Platinum travel benefits are as good or better than they’ve always been so I’m not getting the thesis that they are moving away from travel
1) Exactly what kind of customer was that
2) What cards are better at addressing that same customer today
Again, Amex Platinum travel benefits are as good or better than they’ve always been so I’m not getting the thesis that they are moving away from travel
https://s26.q4cdn.com/747928648/file...Report-(1).pdf
Not a secret that the super majority of American Express's revenue is non-interest rev and the super majority of that non-interest revenue is discount revenue.
Amex 2019 discount revenue: $26B. Amex 2019 net card fees: $4B
We can argue about what factors determine propensity to spend (i.e. age, income, location, etc) but I think everyone can at least agree on that baseline fact.
I think the consistencies between the Chase and Amex changes (i.e. Equinox & Peloton, Uber & Lyft, Uber Eats and DoorDash, Urban Centurion Lounge and Chase Sapphire NYC Seaport Lounge, etc.) reveal an apparent shift in target user.
Total net spending increases as people age up until the early 50s where it presumably drops off as people retire. However, the propensity to spend relative to income is highest for people 34 and younger. Many of these changes (i.e. complaints on Equinox locations) are biased toward VHCOL areas such as NYC and SF where spend (and income) are just naturally higher. The services targetted also skew high income (great example, Jeffries giving Pelotons to all of their employees lol).
Interpret that information however you wish.
Not sure how 2 is relevant. Just because there is not another product better suited for a group does not mean much. If anything, it suggests that companies with products already serving the needs of those customers are less incentivized to improve (as there is no credible competition).
#758
Not sure about the above demographic spending. For very young people, like 22 to 30, single and professional, they tend to spend more compared to income. There is pressure to show girlfriend/boyfriend how rich they are.
After they get married 30+, they probably start to spend less. They need to save for kids college and for own retirement etc.
When folks reach 50+ or 60+ retired, they are at the prime of earning and prime of network. No more kids. Those people have more disposal wealth to spend....
Chase learnt the hard lesson for pushing the CSR to the young and restless folks. AmEx can make the same mistakes to target those young urban cardholders. When folks get married or have kids, they probably do not use Grubhub or Uber that much....
After they get married 30+, they probably start to spend less. They need to save for kids college and for own retirement etc.
When folks reach 50+ or 60+ retired, they are at the prime of earning and prime of network. No more kids. Those people have more disposal wealth to spend....
Chase learnt the hard lesson for pushing the CSR to the young and restless folks. AmEx can make the same mistakes to target those young urban cardholders. When folks get married or have kids, they probably do not use Grubhub or Uber that much....
#759
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC (LGA, JFK), CT
Programs: Delta Platinum, American Gold, JetBlue Mosaic 4, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 4,895
Fair enough, let’s point out cards that serve this 50-60 year old, high earning demographic a lot better than Amex Platinum. Apparently this crowd has complained about the CSR fee increase and CSP changes/discontinuation as well, so I’m not seeing a product out there that serves this (alleged) market super well
#760
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Manhattan, Palm Beach Island, San Francisco, Boston, & Hong Kong
Programs: Lifetime United Global Services, Delta Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Ambassador, & Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,165
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-...ary-by-age.htm
#761
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Manhattan, Palm Beach Island, San Francisco, Boston, & Hong Kong
Programs: Lifetime United Global Services, Delta Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Ambassador, & Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,165
Fair enough, let’s point out cards that serve this 50-60 year old, high earning demographic a lot better than Amex Platinum. Apparently this crowd has complained about the CSR fee increase and CSP changes/discontinuation as well, so I’m not seeing a product out there that serves this (alleged) market super well
I would argue that the people that want a single card to elevate their entire travel experience to the next level would be best served by the Centurion though. I am not old enough to really understand what it meant to get an Amex Platinum back when it was invite-only. There are many data points for the Centurion invite (especially the Business Centurion) that show shockingly low spend requirements. I would be curious to know how exclusivity for the old Platinum (and even the OG centurion) compare to the Centurion today.
Regardless, it seems strictly better than the Platinum for people that are willing to pay an AF and do not want to coupon:
Better travel elite status:
Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, and Delta Platinum (!)
Better travel concierge
Better hotel preferred agent alternative (Centurion Hotel Program >>>>>>>>> FHR with $200-$300 property credits instead of just $100 and room upgrades on booking)
Strictly worse earning but I think it more than makes up for that with the 2cp/mr fixed value airfare redemption.
--
Not sure who has complained about the CSP changes (?) and, in my book, the types of people complaining about the CSR changes are the same people complaining about the Amex Platinum changes (people that won't use Lyft, DoorDash, Equinox, etc).
I think Amex and Chase know exactly what they are doing. However, the Amex Platinum definitely works for me whereas the CSR does not, even as someone that a) lives in Midtown Manhattan b) has a Peloton in his spare bedroom c) Lyfts and DoorDashes frequently. For my use case, Amex is strictly winning.
#762
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,433
CSR seems better than Amex if you're spending a lot on higher end travel and dining, especially if you find more value in cashing out rather than using points. I have no idea how many people are in this group.
I believe Amex used to offer J companion passes.
I believe Amex used to offer J companion passes.
#763
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC (LGA, JFK), CT
Programs: Delta Platinum, American Gold, JetBlue Mosaic 4, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 4,895
Maybe the Amex Platinum is the best card for your needs (pretty personal calculation that everyone has to make on their own though). I genuinely do not understand what that means in the context of this discussion. If there is less competition for your niche, what incentive does Amex have to target new updates toward you?
I would argue that the people that want a single card to elevate their entire travel experience to the next level would be best served by the Centurion though. I am not old enough to really understand what it meant to get an Amex Platinum back when it was invite-only. There are many data points for the Centurion invite (especially the Business Centurion) that show shockingly low spend requirements. I would be curious to know how exclusivity for the old Platinum (and even the OG centurion) compare to the Centurion today.
Regardless, it seems strictly better than the Platinum for people that are willing to pay an AF and do not want to coupon:
Better travel elite status:
Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, and Delta Platinum (!)
Better travel concierge
Better hotel preferred agent alternative (Centurion Hotel Program >>>>>>>>> FHR with $200-$300 property credits instead of just $100 and room upgrades on booking)
Strictly worse earning but I think it more than makes up for that with the 2cp/mr fixed value airfare redemption.
--
Not sure who has complained about the CSP changes (?) and, in my book, the types of people complaining about the CSR changes are the same people complaining about the Amex Platinum changes (people that won't use Lyft, DoorDash, Equinox, etc).
I think Amex and Chase know exactly what they are doing. However, the Amex Platinum definitely works for me whereas the CSR does not, even as someone that a) lives in Midtown Manhattan b) has a Peloton in his spare bedroom c) Lyfts and DoorDashes frequently. For my use case, Amex is strictly winning.
I would argue that the people that want a single card to elevate their entire travel experience to the next level would be best served by the Centurion though. I am not old enough to really understand what it meant to get an Amex Platinum back when it was invite-only. There are many data points for the Centurion invite (especially the Business Centurion) that show shockingly low spend requirements. I would be curious to know how exclusivity for the old Platinum (and even the OG centurion) compare to the Centurion today.
Regardless, it seems strictly better than the Platinum for people that are willing to pay an AF and do not want to coupon:
Better travel elite status:
Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, and Delta Platinum (!)
Better travel concierge
Better hotel preferred agent alternative (Centurion Hotel Program >>>>>>>>> FHR with $200-$300 property credits instead of just $100 and room upgrades on booking)
Strictly worse earning but I think it more than makes up for that with the 2cp/mr fixed value airfare redemption.
--
Not sure who has complained about the CSP changes (?) and, in my book, the types of people complaining about the CSR changes are the same people complaining about the Amex Platinum changes (people that won't use Lyft, DoorDash, Equinox, etc).
I think Amex and Chase know exactly what they are doing. However, the Amex Platinum definitely works for me whereas the CSR does not, even as someone that a) lives in Midtown Manhattan b) has a Peloton in his spare bedroom c) Lyfts and DoorDashes frequently. For my use case, Amex is strictly winning.
#764
I disagree that it is a mistake and disagree that Chase views the CSR changes as a loss for them. If anything it has just reaffirmed their belief that high-end credit cards are likely not the most profitable business for them to pursue. Personally, I am confident that the technology and data science teams at Chase (amazing tech team, new JPM campus in palo alto recruits SWEs just one step below the quality of big tech SWEs) and Amex (top tier data science talent) know exactly what they are doing.
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-...ary-by-age.htm
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-...ary-by-age.htm
CC banks compete. So we win. That is all I care about....
Chase CSR is about the closest I'd like. I surely like Chase to add some more travel benefits to it. Chase does control Hyatt, IHG, UA, share Marriott and have a lot of other travel co-brand cards. I'll be happy to get CSR again if Chase add more hotel or airline benefits to CSR.
What AmEx has done with Platinum is just some distractions. They are the results of the marketing gimmicks, not related to the travel we do. All driven by the marketing $$. Going in the wrong direction IMO.
Last edited by RedSun; Jul 17, 2021 at 7:13 pm
#765
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,194
Even if I received that invitation, it would be a "hard pass".