jags86

Since the credit is for a prepaid stay, not paid at the hotel, you wouldn’t be able to do that since AMEX doesn’t allow split payment options on it’s travel website.. What you could do if you had a two night stay, each of you book one of the nights then call the hotel to combine the reservations.

WasKnown

I paid for Audible too but I took the annual plan (which was much cheaper than paying for it monthly) which obviously doesn't work well with the new credit. So with this in mind, even though I was already an audible subscriber, I cannot value the credit any higher than the amount I would have paid for the audible annual plan (which was also a prepayment).

I get where you're coming from and completely agree that Amex is clearly targeting a different type of customer vs. the customer it was targeting 30 years ago.

However, I do not mind the addition of perks that I cannot use. For example, even as someone who spends a ton of time in Manhattan, I don't really care about the Equinox credit and its existence. Frankly, some of the limitations are hilarious but these limitations don't take away from the parts of the card I value. In a similar sense, while I go out of my way to use the Saks credit every 6 months, I don't value it heavily in my calculations for the card. The additional credits don't matter if you stray from the trap of including them in your valuations.

With all of this being said, I don't see how many people living in rural/suburban areas with cars and major airports 90+ minutes away can justify this card. It is definitely possible but I would argue it is far easier for someone living in a major city (where ride hailing, food delivery, Centurion lounges, and spontaneous weekend vacations are far more common) to justify the AF.

arshi007

You may not be able to do it on a single night stay but you can do a two night stay and make two separate reservations, one for each night. Usually for a FHR type stay, it makes sense to have atleast 2 nights in order to enjoy the stay fully.

Adelphos

A common complaint seems to be that Amex is targeting a “different customer” than it was 30 years ago

1) Exactly what kind of customer was that
2) What cards are better at addressing that same customer today

Again, Amex Platinum travel benefits are as good or better than they’ve always been so I’m not getting the thesis that they are moving away from travel

hotturnip

Unless something has changed very recently, you still get 5 points/$ for air travel booked directly with airlines. You don't have to book airfare through the Amex Travel site.

Global Adventurer

Duh! I guess I do need a spreadsheet to keep track of everything ☹️ Totally forgot! 😁

WasKnown

I think it's pretty clear Amex wants to target high spenders more than anything else.

https://s26.q4cdn.com/747928648/file...Report-(1).pdf

Not a secret that the super majority of American Express's revenue is non-interest rev and the super majority of that non-interest revenue is discount revenue.

Amex 2019 discount revenue: $26B. Amex 2019 net card fees: $4B

We can argue about what factors determine propensity to spend (i.e. age, income, location, etc) but I think everyone can at least agree on that baseline fact.

I think the consistencies between the Chase and Amex changes (i.e. Equinox & Peloton, Uber & Lyft, Uber Eats and DoorDash, Urban Centurion Lounge and Chase Sapphire NYC Seaport Lounge, etc.) reveal an apparent shift in target user.

Total net spending increases as people age up until the early 50s where it presumably drops off as people retire. However, the propensity to spend relative to income is highest for people 34 and younger. Many of these changes (i.e. complaints on Equinox locations) are biased toward VHCOL areas such as NYC and SF where spend (and income) are just naturally higher. The services targetted also skew high income (great example, Jeffries giving Pelotons to all of their employees lol).

Interpret that information however you wish.

Not sure how 2 is relevant. Just because there is not another product better suited for a group does not mean much. If anything, it suggests that companies with products already serving the needs of those customers are less incentivized to improve (as there is no credible competition).

RedSun

Not sure about the above demographic spending. For very young people, like 22 to 30, single and professional, they tend to spend more compared to income. There is pressure to show girlfriend/boyfriend how rich they are.

After they get married 30+, they probably start to spend less. They need to save for kids college and for own retirement etc.

When folks reach 50+ or 60+ retired, they are at the prime of earning and prime of network. No more kids. Those people have more disposal wealth to spend....

Chase learnt the hard lesson for pushing the CSR to the young and restless folks. AmEx can make the same mistakes to target those young urban cardholders. When folks get married or have kids, they probably do not use Grubhub or Uber that much....

Adelphos

Fair enough, let’s point out cards that serve this 50-60 year old, high earning demographic a lot better than Amex Platinum. Apparently this crowd has complained about the CSR fee increase and CSP changes/discontinuation as well, so I’m not seeing a product out there that serves this (alleged) market super well

WasKnown

Agree with the trend. People under the age of 25 spend more than they earn, even though that is the youngest total amount spending out of each age group. Not sure about the reasoning behind that but it's whatever.

People 25-34 spend much more total than those under the age of 25. However, the propensity to spend does decrease (so less spend relative to income).

Total spent (and income) begins to decrease in the age 55-64 bucket and only continues to go down from there.

I disagree that it is a mistake and disagree that Chase views the CSR changes as a loss for them. If anything it has just reaffirmed their belief that high-end credit cards are likely not the most profitable business for them to pursue. Personally, I am confident that the technology and data science teams at Chase (amazing tech team, new JPM campus in palo alto recruits SWEs just one step below the quality of big tech SWEs) and Amex (top tier data science talent) know exactly what they are doing.

Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-...ary-by-age.htm

WasKnown

Maybe the Amex Platinum is the best card for your needs (pretty personal calculation that everyone has to make on their own though). I genuinely do not understand what that means in the context of this discussion. If there is less competition for your niche, what incentive does Amex have to target new updates toward you?

I would argue that the people that want a single card to elevate their entire travel experience to the next level would be best served by the Centurion though. I am not old enough to really understand what it meant to get an Amex Platinum back when it was invite-only. There are many data points for the Centurion invite (especially the Business Centurion) that show shockingly low spend requirements. I would be curious to know how exclusivity for the old Platinum (and even the OG centurion) compare to the Centurion today.

Regardless, it seems strictly better than the Platinum for people that are willing to pay an AF and do not want to coupon:

Better travel elite status:

Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, and Delta Platinum (!)

Better travel concierge

Better hotel preferred agent alternative (Centurion Hotel Program >>>>>>>>> FHR with $200-$300 property credits instead of just $100 and room upgrades on booking)

Strictly worse earning but I think it more than makes up for that with the 2cp/mr fixed value airfare redemption.

--
Not sure who has complained about the CSP changes (?) and, in my book, the types of people complaining about the CSR changes are the same people complaining about the Amex Platinum changes (people that won't use Lyft, DoorDash, Equinox, etc).

I think Amex and Chase know exactly what they are doing. However, the Amex Platinum definitely works for me whereas the CSR does not, even as someone that a) lives in Midtown Manhattan b) has a Peloton in his spare bedroom c) Lyfts and DoorDashes frequently. For my use case, Amex is strictly winning.

richarddd

CSR seems better than Amex if you're spending a lot on higher end travel and dining, especially if you find more value in cashing out rather than using points. I have no idea how many people are in this group.

I believe Amex used to offer J companion passes.

Adelphos

All I was trying to say is that those that want a “premium travel” card experience needed to pay a lot more for it. I agree that Centurion seems the closest to what many people in this thread want - but almost none will pay for it (especially in this thread).

RedSun

It is really hard to say what Chase is thinking. Now Chase is pushing the 100,000 CSP again. It is no brainer to get this 100,000 if anyone is still eligible. Most CC banks are under pressure since CC balance has been low and banks do not earn much interest.

CC banks compete. So we win. That is all I care about....

It is hard to define what this "premium" is. I think to most of the people, we'd like the CC to offer mid-tier hotel and airline status and get the chance to earn the top tier. Then get access to some of the airport lounges and transit and travel memberships.

Chase CSR is about the closest I'd like. I surely like Chase to add some more travel benefits to it. Chase does control Hyatt, IHG, UA, share Marriott and have a lot of other travel co-brand cards. I'll be happy to get CSR again if Chase add more hotel or airline benefits to CSR.

What AmEx has done with Platinum is just some distractions. They are the results of the marketing gimmicks, not related to the travel we do. All driven by the marketing $$. Going in the wrong direction IMO.

Diplomatico

Agree with all. That said, The Centurion card requires an invitation, which most of the people on this thread will never receive.

Even if I received that invitation, it would be a "hard pass".