Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Apr 19, 2019, 1:07 pm
#676
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,044
Will be flying on this bird for the first time this summer, family of 4. Late night flight, goal and plan is to recline seats ASAP and go straight to sleep, hopefully wake up 20 minutes before landing. Based on all the comments I think I am going to go with rows 4 and 5, middle seats. Figure the "motion over the ocean" will be limited for the adults as the kids are pretty deep sleepers and neither one weighs more than 75 pounds, so only so much force they can apply to the seats. Picked rows 4 and 5 because it seems to be the best option to avoid noise and light. Row 2 middle seats are taken, otherwise would have taken 2 and 3. Figure doing 3 and 4 is a bad idea since they aren't attached to each other, putting all 4 of us at the potential mercy of a seatmate who moves around a lot.
Anything else to consider?
Anything else to consider?
-BP
Apr 19, 2019, 1:34 pm
#677
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 789
(N810AN) Flew1A Wednesday 4/17/19. The sides of the walls round the seat block the galley light. With eye shades and ear plugs I slept soundly.
Bad news is, no they have not fixed the seats.
I started flying in mid 70’s and I always tried to get 1A so you could look almost toward. Habit that stayed with me.
I did not see any curtains in use and the bathrooms between Coach (PE from May 2 ) and Business were shared.
I like the better air quality and the weather seems smoother as they seem to go up to FL400 much more often than the 777’s. Not keen on the seats rocking and the aisles feel narrow compared to 77W’s.
Have great flight.
Bad news is, no they have not fixed the seats.
I started flying in mid 70’s and I always tried to get 1A so you could look almost toward. Habit that stayed with me.
I did not see any curtains in use and the bathrooms between Coach (PE from May 2 ) and Business were shared.
I like the better air quality and the weather seems smoother as they seem to go up to FL400 much more often than the 777’s. Not keen on the seats rocking and the aisles feel narrow compared to 77W’s.
Have great flight.
Last edited by flyertalker54234; Apr 19, 2019 at 3:52 pm
Apr 19, 2019, 1:37 pm
#678
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 286
How old are your kids? Do you need to “sweep” through the kids seats quickly during boarding? How much of a pain will it be not to be all on the same aisle? Sitting “next” to each other in middle seats doesn’t allow you to help a kid much, or at all with overhead bins. We’re a family of 4 and typically take 4 seats all on the same aisle. Often 3 windows and one adult in a middle section.
-BP
Right now 2 A, D, H and 3 A and L are occupied. We could do 4 A& D, and 5 A & D to be able to get across the aisle quickly for assistance. But that opens up the person in 4A to an unknown seat opponent. Could put the smallest kid there- sleeps soundly
Not sure what you meant by "sweeping" through the seats?
Last edited by DCJoe1; Apr 19, 2019 at 1:38 pm Reason: Answer question fully
Apr 19, 2019, 5:08 pm
#679
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,044
Ages 8 and 11. Eight year old definitely needs a bit of assistance with things- 11 year old not really. On our last flight in reverse herringbone we did 2 window and then 2 aisles across from them, that seemed to work out okay, but the whole connected seats thing throws off my calculus. We could split up into 2 groups of 2 if necessary, but don't feel comfortable leaving either kid totally "alone".
Right now 2 A, D, H and 3 A and L are occupied. We could do 4 A& D, and 5 A & D to be able to get across the aisle quickly for assistance. But that opens up the person in 4A to an unknown seat opponent. Could put the smallest kid there- sleeps soundly
Not sure what you meant by "sweeping" through the seats?
Right now 2 A, D, H and 3 A and L are occupied. We could do 4 A& D, and 5 A & D to be able to get across the aisle quickly for assistance. But that opens up the person in 4A to an unknown seat opponent. Could put the smallest kid there- sleeps soundly
Not sure what you meant by "sweeping" through the seats?
With my crew (little younger than yours) I’ve found it really useful all being on the same aisle. Being on separate aisles would be a big pain for us.
I’d do as you suggest in 4&5 if it were us.
Apr 19, 2019, 8:22 pm
#680
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 286
sweeping = checking no kid left anything behind tucked into their seat area. Critical with my crew.
With my crew (little younger than yours) I’ve found it really useful all being on the same aisle. Being on separate aisles would be a big pain for us.
I’d do as you suggest in 4&5 if it were us.
Will go with the window/aisle combos. Appreciate the advice and thinking through it.
Last edited by DCJoe1; Apr 19, 2019 at 8:23 pm Reason: Typo
May 12, 2019, 2:36 am
#682
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 789
The next 22 and confirmation of seat
Is there any news on the delivery of the next 22 and confirmation of seating. It makes sense not to fit the current yin and yang which even BA is dumping. My question is will it not make booking and seat reservations harder if you do not know until the last minute if it will be new or old? When are the new ones coming?
May 12, 2019, 6:14 am
#683
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
Is there any news on the delivery of the next 22 and confirmation of seating. It makes sense not to fit the current yin and yang which even BA is dumping. My question is will it not make booking and seat reservations harder if you do not know until the last minute if it will be new or old? When are the new ones coming?
Since AA and Zodiac didn’t exactly have a friendly relationship at the end, I’m guessing it will be the Super Diamond variant of seat again on the new ones.
May 12, 2019, 6:45 am
#684
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 789
The new ones will almost certainly come with the same amount of J seats, so it won’t affect booking and seat selection any more than it does right now when booking J on an 772 with the mixed fleet.
Since AA and Zodiac didn’t exactly have a friendly relationship at the end, I’m guessing it will be the Super Diamond variant of seat again on the new ones.
May 12, 2019, 8:25 am
#685
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
The new ones will almost certainly come with the same amount of J seats, so it won’t affect booking and seat selection any more than it does right now when booking J on an 772 with the mixed fleet.
Since AA and Zodiac didn’t exactly have a friendly relationship at the end, I’m guessing it will be the Super Diamond variant of seat again on the new ones.
Jun 26, 2019, 5:12 pm
#686
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: SAN
Programs: AA CK, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 839
Seven 788s have been converted or are in the shop at PAE for refitting (out of 22 788s). Practically, as N800AN was the test / trial article last year, it means AA is moving quickly on this retrofit of PE (and concomitant reduction of Business seats). For once, it looks like a stated deadline (June) will be met, and it has been reported that AA is only selling 20 Business seats on this aircraft.
I’d strongly recommend avoiding booking a seat in the row 6 or 7 mini-cabin. Even if the older aircraft version shows as one’s flight, an equipment change from a 28 to 20 seat cabin could occur - and the odds are increasing that could happen. Reference threads:
Boeing 787-8 / 788 Premium Economy / PE / PEY progress and seat info
AA limits 787-8 / 788 Business seat sales to 20 (One Mile at a Time)
I’d strongly recommend avoiding booking a seat in the row 6 or 7 mini-cabin. Even if the older aircraft version shows as one’s flight, an equipment change from a 28 to 20 seat cabin could occur - and the odds are increasing that could happen. Reference threads:
Boeing 787-8 / 788 Premium Economy / PE / PEY progress and seat info
AA limits 787-8 / 788 Business seat sales to 20 (One Mile at a Time)
Jun 26, 2019, 5:14 pm
#687
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,285
all 788 been retrofitted as of May 1. Motion over the ocean was not fixed. Pick 5AL or 1DH if you don’t want to be disturbed
Jul 1, 2019, 5:34 am
#689
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Durham, NC (RDU/GSO/CLT)
Programs: AA EXP/MM, DL GM, UA Platinum, HH DIA, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 33,857
FWIW I just flew DFW-EZE on a 788 in 3A and I didn't feel any motion. I slept better than I did on the way back on a 777-200 in fact.
Jul 1, 2019, 7:52 am
#690
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
+1. I sleep better than the Super Diamond as well. For me, it's because the fixed tray table / IFE monitor always get in the way of my knees when I'm sleeping on the SD. The Zodiac seat, by contrast, has no leg restriction since it's like a "coffin" style.