Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Aug 25, 2019, 2:10 pm
#706
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I believe it is a result of rushing in PE to please IAG. (Do not believe it is driving revenue against the old larger business cabin).The 788 was ordered before the PE was decided and the refit just swapped the Seats in the mini cabin.
I suspect when the rocking seats finally get replaced (no time soon) then a slant curtain as in the 77W will be fitted. The problem being no planes have been designed to specifically cope with PE. PE being different things on different carriers. For BA it is a distinct class of travel so you cannot upgrade from Coach to Business where American say have a view that it is an enhanced Coach product with service levels comparable to domestic non Transcontinental first. It will probably need the industry to agree a positioning. Whether it is 4 classes or part of a downgrade from FCM to JWY. This is more complicated to the use carriers make of First, upgrades, VIP’s and non rev which again varies by route. Curtains need to return as the airline is required to demarcate ticketed cabins on international flights by TSA.
The only reason AA has not rolled out upgrade using eVIPs from Y to PE is a calculated step for not upsetting current rules too much. Also bear in mind that AA also advertise Main Cabin Extra. AA has not made its mind up on how to effectively monetize on Coach to Main Cabin Extra VS Coach to PE.
Non-rev is simple on AA with PE too. Any non-rev eligible for Y will be assigned Y first. Non-rev requested premium cabins will be assigned F--J. Once when both F and J is full, PE is assigned.
Believe in me, PE will be expanding. The current feed back and demand on PE is quite healthy. AA is suffering on its B788 fleet as the PE cabin is too small [for lost revenue opportunity]. I would not be surprised to hear that AA would install more PE seats in near future (cir. 2023) when next long haul fleet refurbishment due.
Aug 25, 2019, 3:43 pm
#707
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Ahhhhhh...PE is what it is, Premier Economy class. PE on both AA and BA are very similar, although small things differ. But ultimately it is a COACH product with extra width, extra recline, extra legroom and extra size meals as well as upgraded amenities.
The only reason AA has not rolled out upgrade using eVIPs from Y to PE is a calculated step for not upsetting current rules too much. Also bear in mind that AA also advertise Main Cabin Extra. AA has not made its mind up on how to effectively monetize on Coach to Main Cabin Extra VS Coach to PE.
Non-rev is simple on AA with PE too. Any non-rev eligible for Y will be assigned Y first. Non-rev requested premium cabins will be assigned F--J. Once when both F and J is full, PE is assigned.
Believe in me, PE will be expanding. The current feed back and demand on PE is quite healthy. AA is suffering on its B788 fleet as the PE cabin is too small [for lost revenue opportunity]. I would not be surprised to hear that AA would install more PE seats in near future (cir. 2023) when next long haul fleet refurbishment due.
The only reason AA has not rolled out upgrade using eVIPs from Y to PE is a calculated step for not upsetting current rules too much. Also bear in mind that AA also advertise Main Cabin Extra. AA has not made its mind up on how to effectively monetize on Coach to Main Cabin Extra VS Coach to PE.
Non-rev is simple on AA with PE too. Any non-rev eligible for Y will be assigned Y first. Non-rev requested premium cabins will be assigned F--J. Once when both F and J is full, PE is assigned.
Believe in me, PE will be expanding. The current feed back and demand on PE is quite healthy. AA is suffering on its B788 fleet as the PE cabin is too small [for lost revenue opportunity]. I would not be surprised to hear that AA would install more PE seats in near future (cir. 2023) when next long haul fleet refurbishment due.
i think you are right about 2023. How it is done will depend on whether Global economy booms or is in recession. In a boom FFB will be if little concern and a sizable chunk of coach will go PE. mCE will end up as exit rows. If there is a recession, then FFB benefits and upgrades will be front and center and we might see Business and Coach being converted to PE for business travelers where the road warriors are banned from the roomy parts of the plane to cut costs. This is also an issue for AA. Many corporations set travel policy to be Coach. As long as PE is a form of coach then the road wArriors can book it. Say it isn’t Coach and the accountants will close the door. For short flights PE is fine but sleep on an overnight is still challenging for the tall.
Aug 26, 2019, 7:30 am
#708
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Darn. I knew that would be the case. I recently had 7L on a 772 with backward facing seats. You couldnt see out the window at all. I like to look out and watch the wing/engine. No other windows available, but will set an EF alert. I don't suppose anyone has a photo of 5A/L and its missing window?
Aug 26, 2019, 7:33 am
#709
Join Date: Nov 2018
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Darn. I knew that would be the case. I recently had 7L on a 772 with backward facing seats. You couldnt see out the window at all. I like to look out and watch the wing/engine. No other windows available, but will set an EF alert. I don't suppose anyone has a photo of 5A/L and its missing window?
But 5A and 5L are the only window seats that are not attached
Aug 26, 2019, 7:35 am
#710
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Darn. I knew that would be the case. I recently had 7L on a 772 with backward facing seats. You couldnt see out the window at all. I like to look out and watch the wing/engine. No other windows available, but will set an EF alert. I don't suppose anyone has a photo of 5A/L and its missing window?
Aug 27, 2019, 4:39 pm
#711
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I just got off of 5A yesterday. I think it is the best seat on the plane. Very private, cozy feeling. I could see the motor if I leaned forward and looked back. It was there the couple of times I looked. Bonus is the large box thing behind the seat where you can store all the things you need for the flight, and more. One of the best flights I have had in a while. Slept like a baby too.
Oct 21, 2019, 10:00 am
#714
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Where is the midflight snack setup on the 788? In the 789 the snacks are now set up on 1D/1H and it always seemed like you'd be peering into the occupant's space. Unfortunately only middle seats left on my flight.
I like the idea of 1H to avoid the motion issue, but the snacks may be a deal breaker.
I like the idea of 1H to avoid the motion issue, but the snacks may be a deal breaker.
Oct 21, 2019, 11:00 am
#715
Join Date: Nov 2018
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Where is the midflight snack setup on the 788? In the 789 the snacks are now set up on 1D/1H and it always seemed like you'd be peering into the occupant's space. Unfortunately only middle seats left on my flight.
I like the idea of 1H to avoid the motion issue, but the snacks may be a deal breaker.
I like the idea of 1H to avoid the motion issue, but the snacks may be a deal breaker.
Oct 21, 2019, 4:26 pm
#716
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Oct 21, 2019, 4:29 pm
#717
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When 788 had mini J cabin it was a perfect place to have snack galley and FAs usually did a good job with presentation.
Oct 22, 2019, 5:05 am
#718
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I don’t fly AA like I use to so im not familiar if they have totally replaced all the seats yet. But the original seats on the 788 I loved were the mini cabin and would take 6A all day. That was the best seat. Private, quiet, next to the window so I was kept cool during flight. I actually had hoped they wouldn’t change to the 789 seats as I thought the original ones were just fine for solo travelers. Traveling with someone else not so much.
Oct 22, 2019, 7:48 am
#719
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I don’t fly AA like I use to so im not familiar if they have totally replaced all the seats yet. But the original seats on the 788 I loved were the mini cabin and would take 6A all day. That was the best seat. Private, quiet, next to the window so I was kept cool during flight. I actually had hoped they wouldn’t change to the 789 seats as I thought the original ones were just fine for solo travelers. Traveling with someone else not so much.
Oct 25, 2019, 3:05 pm
#720
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Where is the midflight snack setup on the 788? In the 789 the snacks are now set up on 1D/1H and it always seemed like you'd be peering into the occupant's space. Unfortunately only middle seats left on my flight.
I like the idea of 1H to avoid the motion issue, but the snacks may be a deal breaker.
I like the idea of 1H to avoid the motion issue, but the snacks may be a deal breaker.
The galley behind 5 only had PE snacks (or are they just Y snacks?) of some kettle chips and Milano cookies.