Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Dec 6, 2018, 8:46 pm
#586
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,285
There is only ONE 788 retrofitted at this time AFAIK. N800AN seems to be the only one.
As the final two 777-223ERs went into the shop at the end of November for retrofitting with Premium Economy, and an AA spokesperson recently announced it, the 19 remaining 788s should be refitted during the first half of 2019.
That portends for a very dynamic half year with potential for seat scrambles. I’d avoid booking C seats in rows 6 or 7 as “insurance“.
As the final two 777-223ERs went into the shop at the end of November for retrofitting with Premium Economy, and an AA spokesperson recently announced it, the 19 remaining 788s should be refitted during the first half of 2019.
That portends for a very dynamic half year with potential for seat scrambles. I’d avoid booking C seats in rows 6 or 7 as “insurance“.
I just double checked flight radar app and yea dec 7 flight is actually on N800AA.
But for some reason mobile web page of seat radar is showing UTC time and not CST, hence that’s why I saw N808AN on Dec 7 when it actually is on Dec 6 tonight.
Dec 7, 2018, 10:50 pm
#587
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MVP100K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Gold
Posts: 3,215
Here’s what I don’t understand. If AA knows the 788 won’t have the mini cabins any longer, and will have less seats for flights at definite times (like my flight from PEK-DFW in March), why not just upload the new seat configurations to choose from?
Dec 7, 2018, 10:58 pm
#588
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,285
Makeover they want to take your money and deal with rebooking you later.
Dec 10, 2018, 10:09 am
#590
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: PHL
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, AAdvantage Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 263
My wife asked the FA if the partition could be lowered, and was told that it couldn’t go down. I’m not sure if this was a white lie, or if they genuinely believed that - the FAs said that they don’t usually have a 787 on this route and were unfamiliar with details such as headphone jack locations.
Dec 11, 2018, 3:34 am
#591
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MVP100K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Gold
Posts: 3,215
I flew this on December 7th. The partitions were up on the odd numbered rows, but down on the even ones. I could still talk to (and share food with) my wife with minimal added effort.
My wife asked the FA if the partition could be lowered, and was told that it couldn’t go down. I’m not sure if this was a white lie, or if they genuinely believed that - the FAs said that they don’t usually have a 787 on this route and were unfamiliar with details such as headphone jack locations.
Dec 11, 2018, 1:33 pm
#592
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
AA promised a long time ago they’d fix the partition and the “Motion over the ocean” attached-at-the-head seat-induced motion, but: Zodiac is the designer-manufacturer. AA sued them. Who’s going to engineer and modify the “orphan” Zodiac seats and spend the time to shepherd it all through the FAA to get the required STC? It’s not cheap, and certainly Zodiac has no interest - and I’ll bet the beAAn counters don’t want to spend American’s money either.
They’re removing minicabin seats to make room for Premium Economy. That’s the only reason. AA is sticking with the Zodiac seats in the 772 subfleet of 19 and the soon-to-be subfleet of 20 788s, apparently. (I believe the remaining 22 788s will be delivered “out of the box” with Premium Economy and most likely B/E Aerospace (now Rockwell Collins) Super Diamond seats.
Dec 11, 2018, 2:59 pm
#593
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MVP100K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Gold
Posts: 3,215
No; while it’s true cabin crew and passengers can’t lower the partitions, the problem is there’s no SOP for maintenance, so they’ll adjust the partitions as they see fit - usually up one row, down the next. One can’t count on the configurations.
AA promised a long time ago they’d fix the partition and the “Motion over the ocean” attached-at-the-head seat-induced motion, but: Zodiac is the designer-manufacturer. AA sued them. Who’s going to engineer and modify the “orphan” Zodiac seats and spend the time to shepherd it all through the FAA to get the required STC? It’s not cheap, and certainly Zodiac has no interest - and I’ll bet the beAAn counters don’t want to spend American’s money either.
They’re removing minicabin seats to make room for Premium Economy. That’s the only reason. AA is sticking with the Zodiac seats in the 772 subfleet of 19 and the soon-to-be subfleet of 20 788s, apparently. (I believe the remaining 22 788s will be delivered “out of the box” with Premium Economy and most likely B/E Aerospace (now Rockwell Collins) Super Diamond seats.
AA promised a long time ago they’d fix the partition and the “Motion over the ocean” attached-at-the-head seat-induced motion, but: Zodiac is the designer-manufacturer. AA sued them. Who’s going to engineer and modify the “orphan” Zodiac seats and spend the time to shepherd it all through the FAA to get the required STC? It’s not cheap, and certainly Zodiac has no interest - and I’ll bet the beAAn counters don’t want to spend American’s money either.
They’re removing minicabin seats to make room for Premium Economy. That’s the only reason. AA is sticking with the Zodiac seats in the 772 subfleet of 19 and the soon-to-be subfleet of 20 788s, apparently. (I believe the remaining 22 788s will be delivered “out of the box” with Premium Economy and most likely B/E Aerospace (now Rockwell Collins) Super Diamond seats.
Dec 11, 2018, 5:34 pm
#594
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Because there’s no SOP, passengers can’t count on selecting seats with dividers up or down - something that could be done if AA chose to issue instructions to maintenance to standardize configurations .
AA has promised to fix this. Some question whether that will ever happen.
Dec 11, 2018, 7:05 pm
#595
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,285
never sat in the center seats on 788 and have a choice of 1D or 3D. I know 1D is not connected to any seat but what about galley light and noise? It’s an overnight TATL flight. I have Bose noise canceling earplugs but not sure if 1D will be comfortable to sleep if there is constant movement around the seat. Any advice?
Dec 12, 2018, 1:08 am
#597
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
never sat in the center seats on 788 and have a choice of 1D or 3D. I know 1D is not connected to any seat but what about galley light and noise? It’s an overnight TATL flight. I have Bose noise canceling earplugs but not sure if 1D will be comfortable to sleep if there is constant movement around the seat. Any advice?
Jan 9, 2019, 9:53 am
#598
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Denver, CO
Programs: AA EXP, IHG Spire Elite
Posts: 72
Quick question on this older thread - Seats 1H and 1D divider - did AA ever allow this to finally be adjustable? Just booked SWUs for my wife and I from ORD-FCO in early April and have these rear-facing seats (for now) because we like the idea of having heads / shoulders close to one another rather than heads apart (and the extra counter space). However, if the divider is still fixed in the up position, we'd like to change to perhaps 3H/3D (even though they are connected to other seats and I always seem to get the most fidgety old fart in those).
Jan 9, 2019, 10:05 am
#599
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,285
Quick question on this older thread - Seats 1H and 1D divider - did AA ever allow this to finally be adjustable? Just booked SWUs for my wife and I from ORD-FCO in early April and have these rear-facing seats (for now) because we like the idea of having heads / shoulders close to one another rather than heads apart (and the extra counter space). However, if the divider is still fixed in the up position, we'd like to change to perhaps 3H/3D (even though they are connected to other seats and I always seem to get the most fidgety old fart in those).
Jan 9, 2019, 10:50 am
#600
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: DCA
Programs: American AAdvantage EXP, World of Hyatt Explorist, Marriott Rewards Titanium, MGM Rewards Gold
Posts: 429
I am scheduled on a 787 on Friday out of Chicago to DFW. Seat map just changed to only 5 rows of J with PE added. Cannot select seats on the app anymore. I was seated in 6L and was moved to 1D. I will report back if this plane is in fact in a revised configuration. Current tail is showing as N801AC. Inbound flight on this tail shows the pre-PE configuration. Definitely interesting why they made this change, unless a sub is planned.
The ORD-DFW flight after my departure is also a 788 and has the old seat map. Anyone else with this?
The ORD-DFW flight after my departure is also a 788 and has the old seat map. Anyone else with this?