Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Sep 26, 2018, 7:36 pm
#526
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
I probably won’t wait much longer to switch. Right now I’m holding out to see how long each plane takes. If each one takes 6 weeks, that’s one thing; it may be alright to hold out. Now if they start cranking them out in a week to 10 days, then it will be time to move. I’m guessing we’ll know more by the end of the month.
Sep 26, 2018, 7:42 pm
#527
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Here and there
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,551
Are you sure the partition doesn't go down? It was working for me in row 5 last time I was traveling with SWMBO.
Sep 27, 2018, 7:14 am
#529
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
Posted on 9/5:
And so it begins for the 787-8 fleet... N800AN headed to KPAE for PE refit and 28 --> 20 J reduction: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n800an
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1037156482880557058
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1037156482880557058
Sep 27, 2018, 9:17 am
#531
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
Maybe. 3 weeks to do the change, and what, 19 to go?
I’m guessing they had to get the procedures lined out first, so the rest shouldn’t take as long. Two upcoming trips involving the 788, and the second one (mid Dec) isn’t looking well for the mini-cabin. Might wait to see how the next one goes before jumping to the forward cabin.
I’m guessing they had to get the procedures lined out first, so the rest shouldn’t take as long. Two upcoming trips involving the 788, and the second one (mid Dec) isn’t looking well for the mini-cabin. Might wait to see how the next one goes before jumping to the forward cabin.
Sep 27, 2018, 2:01 pm
#532
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: ORD/MKE
Programs: UA General Member, AA Gold, SPG (Bonvoy) Gold; IHG Plat. Ambassador
Posts: 399
I’m interested to see what happens with the new ORD > HNL non-stop that is scheduled starting Dec 19 with these 788s. My outbound and inbound are showing completely full in first. With no tickets left for sale.
Any insight if they would swap aircraft, downgrade customers or not convert a few aircraft?
thanks in advance.
Any insight if they would swap aircraft, downgrade customers or not convert a few aircraft?
thanks in advance.
Sep 27, 2018, 9:04 pm
#533
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
Maybe. 3 weeks to do the change, and what, 19 to go?
I’m guessing they had to get the procedures lined out first, so the rest shouldn’t take as long. Two upcoming trips involving the 788, and the second one (mid Dec) isn’t looking well for the mini-cabin. Might wait to see how the next one goes before jumping to the forward cabin.
I’m guessing they had to get the procedures lined out first, so the rest shouldn’t take as long. Two upcoming trips involving the 788, and the second one (mid Dec) isn’t looking well for the mini-cabin. Might wait to see how the next one goes before jumping to the forward cabin.
Flying ORD-DFW the third weekend of October, and I'm not taking any chances. Goodbye 6L.....hello 5L.
Sep 28, 2018, 10:27 am
#534
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
I’m sitting on the fence still. Plenty of time for me to see how quickly the next one is turned around. Noted in the other thread specific to PE refits that the 77W’s were cranked out quickly, but as this involves a bit more detail I think that’s why they jumped earlier than the originally discussed Dec timeframe to start.
If each one takes 3 weeks, I won’t bother changing and takemthe risk. That would leave 2 changed and a 3rd in progress for my first trip, and 3 done, 4th in progress for the second trip. If they start cranking out in 8-10 business days (week and a half to two weeks) I may change my tune. Especially on the second trip.
Sep 28, 2018, 11:54 am
#536
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
At one airframe every three weeks it will take nearly through the end of 2019 (the first, N800AA, is likely to go through a shakedown period before the rest of the fleet transitions through Paine Field, I suspect) to finish the refit. There will be seat disruptions, but once we know the configuration of seats and rows it will pay to book those numbered seats unaffected by the change.
E.g. Do NOT book a J seat in the mini-cabin. It’s logical the forward cabin of 20 Zodiac seats will remain intact, the mini-cabin will become Premium Economy.
(The Wikipost at the top of the page contains some information relating to the refit.)
E.g. Do NOT book a J seat in the mini-cabin. It’s logical the forward cabin of 20 Zodiac seats will remain intact, the mini-cabin will become Premium Economy.
(The Wikipost at the top of the page contains some information relating to the refit.)
Last edited by JDiver; Sep 28, 2018 at 12:02 pm
Sep 28, 2018, 1:57 pm
#537
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
JD, sound advice as usual.
I think the tipping point are those on the cusp of the transition. Myself (2nd/3rd week of Nov, and end of 1st/start of 4th week in Dec) is a bit different. Of course it all depends on scheduling and timing.
For myself, if there is a 75% chance or better that the mini cabin stays intact, then I would take those odds and risk it. If they get to 5+ by whichever time (Nov is highly unlikely for this) then I’ll be moving while selection is open for sure.
Thankfully (and I use the term loosely) it won’t be an issue next time I get a 788 route as they will all be completed.
I think the tipping point are those on the cusp of the transition. Myself (2nd/3rd week of Nov, and end of 1st/start of 4th week in Dec) is a bit different. Of course it all depends on scheduling and timing.
For myself, if there is a 75% chance or better that the mini cabin stays intact, then I would take those odds and risk it. If they get to 5+ by whichever time (Nov is highly unlikely for this) then I’ll be moving while selection is open for sure.
Thankfully (and I use the term loosely) it won’t be an issue next time I get a 788 route as they will all be completed.
Sep 28, 2018, 7:15 pm
#538
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
JD, sound advice as usual.
I think the tipping point are those on the cusp of the transition. Myself (2nd/3rd week of Nov, and end of 1st/start of 4th week in Dec) is a bit different. Of course it all depends on scheduling and timing.
For myself, if there is a 75% chance or better that the mini cabin stays intact, then I would take those odds and risk it. If they get to 5+ by whichever time (Nov is highly unlikely for this) then I’ll be moving while selection is open for sure.
Thankfully (and I use the term loosely) it won’t be an issue next time I get a 788 route as they will all be completed.
I think the tipping point are those on the cusp of the transition. Myself (2nd/3rd week of Nov, and end of 1st/start of 4th week in Dec) is a bit different. Of course it all depends on scheduling and timing.
For myself, if there is a 75% chance or better that the mini cabin stays intact, then I would take those odds and risk it. If they get to 5+ by whichever time (Nov is highly unlikely for this) then I’ll be moving while selection is open for sure.
Thankfully (and I use the term loosely) it won’t be an issue next time I get a 788 route as they will all be completed.
Oct 6, 2018, 10:57 pm
#539
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD [formerly] + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA exExPlat, BAEC exGold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Starriott Titanium, GE
Posts: 2,966
First reconfigured 20J 788 back in the air already operating to Barcelona tonight. Not sure if I should switch out from my 6A in two weeks' time just yet...