Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Sep 11, 2018, 7:01 am
#512
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
I probably won’t wait much longer to switch. Right now I’m holding out to see how long each plane takes. If each one takes 6 weeks, that’s one thing; it may be alright to hold out. Now if they start cranking them out in a week to 10 days, then it will be time to move. I’m guessing we’ll know more by the end of the month.
Sep 12, 2018, 10:39 am
#513
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 75
5A & 5L are still open for my flight, and looks like no seat rocking issue in either of those. Thoughts from others on whether the lavs/galley are really disturbing there? I'll be on the ORD-NRT flight that leaves around noon and gets in at 4:30pm, so wasn't planning on sleeping much but would at least like the chance of a nap.
Sep 15, 2018, 8:34 pm
#514
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Programs: AA GLD, Marriott PLT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,900
I have a flight coming up in November on the 787-800. I was gifted an upgrade so I am riding in J. Been reading a lot of the more recent posts in this thread. I see the comments about the "motion over the ocean".
One major difference for me compared to other posts is my trip is short. DFW-LAS. Looking at the posts, I see many suggest 6A or 6L. I don't have an issue riding "backwards". In fact, I was considering a backwards facing seat to begin with as it means my head is closer to the window. Not that there is much to see between DFW and LAS, a route I have flown many many times. But I suppose it would be nice. And I like the idea of no shoulder belt.
Does the 787-800 always board from L2? I always like it when I can make a left turn and sit FORWARD of a boarding door. But sitting in 6A or 6L would mean I would not be. If they board from 1L, then that point is a bit moot. Is the non-connected seat a better thing than not dealing with a huge stream of people? Maybe that's less of an issue with the rear facing seat?
One major difference for me compared to other posts is my trip is short. DFW-LAS. Looking at the posts, I see many suggest 6A or 6L. I don't have an issue riding "backwards". In fact, I was considering a backwards facing seat to begin with as it means my head is closer to the window. Not that there is much to see between DFW and LAS, a route I have flown many many times. But I suppose it would be nice. And I like the idea of no shoulder belt.
Does the 787-800 always board from L2? I always like it when I can make a left turn and sit FORWARD of a boarding door. But sitting in 6A or 6L would mean I would not be. If they board from 1L, then that point is a bit moot. Is the non-connected seat a better thing than not dealing with a huge stream of people? Maybe that's less of an issue with the rear facing seat?
Sep 15, 2018, 8:41 pm
#515
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
I have a flight coming up in November on the 787-800. I was gifted an upgrade so I am riding in J. Been reading a lot of the more recent posts in this thread. I see the comments about the "motion over the ocean".
One major difference for me compared to other posts is my trip is short. DFW-LAS. Looking at the posts, I see many suggest 6A or 6L. I don't have an issue riding "backwards". In fact, I was considering a backwards facing seat to begin with as it means my head is closer to the window. Not that there is much to see between DFW and LAS, a route I have flown many many times. But I suppose it would be nice. And I like the idea of no shoulder belt.
Does the 787-800 always board from L2? I always like it when I can make a left turn and sit FORWARD of a boarding door. But sitting in 6A or 6L would mean I would not be. If they board from 1L, then that point is a bit moot. Is the non-connected seat a better thing than not dealing with a huge stream of people? Maybe that's less of an issue with the rear facing seat?
One major difference for me compared to other posts is my trip is short. DFW-LAS. Looking at the posts, I see many suggest 6A or 6L. I don't have an issue riding "backwards". In fact, I was considering a backwards facing seat to begin with as it means my head is closer to the window. Not that there is much to see between DFW and LAS, a route I have flown many many times. But I suppose it would be nice. And I like the idea of no shoulder belt.
Does the 787-800 always board from L2? I always like it when I can make a left turn and sit FORWARD of a boarding door. But sitting in 6A or 6L would mean I would not be. If they board from 1L, then that point is a bit moot. Is the non-connected seat a better thing than not dealing with a huge stream of people? Maybe that's less of an issue with the rear facing seat?
Sep 15, 2018, 9:09 pm
#516
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, Owner of 2,000 TWA shares
Posts: 812
LOL. I like to people watch as well but prefer to see the front of them (at their best) and, more importantly, it would drive me crazy if I were facing backwards and had to witness the overhead bin shenanigans. You're a braver soul than I.
Sep 16, 2018, 9:54 am
#517
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Las Vegas
Programs: DL DM, AA PlatPro, Hilton DM, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 1,532
I agree. This backward-facing non-connected seat is my favorite. I'll be really sad when this goes away. Just booked another ORD-PEK-ORD RT in 6L in each direction.
Sep 16, 2018, 10:08 am
#518
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 449
I have a flight coming up in November on the 787-800. I was gifted an upgrade so I am riding in J. Been reading a lot of the more recent posts in this thread. I see the comments about the "motion over the ocean".
One major difference for me compared to other posts is my trip is short. DFW-LAS. Looking at the posts, I see many suggest 6A or 6L. I don't have an issue riding "backwards". In fact, I was considering a backwards facing seat to begin with as it means my head is closer to the window. Not that there is much to see between DFW and LAS, a route I have flown many many times. But I suppose it would be nice. And I like the idea of no shoulder belt.
Does the 787-800 always board from L2? I always like it when I can make a left turn and sit FORWARD of a boarding door. But sitting in 6A or 6L would mean I would not be. If they board from 1L, then that point is a bit moot. Is the non-connected seat a better thing than not dealing with a huge stream of people? Maybe that's less of an issue with the rear facing seat?
One major difference for me compared to other posts is my trip is short. DFW-LAS. Looking at the posts, I see many suggest 6A or 6L. I don't have an issue riding "backwards". In fact, I was considering a backwards facing seat to begin with as it means my head is closer to the window. Not that there is much to see between DFW and LAS, a route I have flown many many times. But I suppose it would be nice. And I like the idea of no shoulder belt.
Does the 787-800 always board from L2? I always like it when I can make a left turn and sit FORWARD of a boarding door. But sitting in 6A or 6L would mean I would not be. If they board from 1L, then that point is a bit moot. Is the non-connected seat a better thing than not dealing with a huge stream of people? Maybe that's less of an issue with the rear facing seat?
It is a very nice J product for domestic rides, enjoy!
Sep 26, 2018, 2:44 pm
#520
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EP 3MM, UA Silver, Bonvoy LT TIT, Hyatt Explorist, HH Silver, Caesars PLT
Posts: 7,259
I'd definitely pick two windows in 6/7. Plus, those seats aren't connected. Fly the mini cabin while you still can!
Sep 26, 2018, 2:50 pm
#523
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
6A/L are backward facing. 7A/L are forward facing. No real difference between the two sides functionally.
If I take the wife, I’ll put her in the forward facing (7) and take the backward facing. No issues.
When is your flight? They’ve sent the first 788 off to take out the mini-cabin and install PE in its place.
If I take the wife, I’ll put her in the forward facing (7) and take the backward facing. No issues.
When is your flight? They’ve sent the first 788 off to take out the mini-cabin and install PE in its place.
Sep 26, 2018, 2:55 pm
#525
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 449
I would add that 6A/L feel more private than 7A/L because it isn’t easy to look at others in the mini cabin while seated. In row 7 you can easily see the person across the aisle from you. If your spouse is ok flying backwards and prefers to feel a bit more private I would recommend you select 6A/L for them.