elitetraveler

By the way I said three times in my statement I was guessing. It was not a claim. You are also very naive if you think BoD members are going to make public statements of doubt. This all happens behind the scenes obviously.

Off the top of my head, Judith Rodin, Armando Codin, Michael Miles and possibly Phil Purcell all date to Crandall.

LAXJFKesq

I am not naive to anything. <redacted>. While you acknowledge that you are just guessing, I do not understand where your take on the AMR BOD is coming from besides you trying to reading the Tea leaves?

elitetraveler

By the way you are wrong on the BoD, Rodin and Codin both date to Crandall.

As I have said multiple times, I'm just guessing it - but most BoDs don't go down with the ship or should I say CEO. The AMR announcement that they are now going to look at consolidation options immediately is 180 degree about face. BoDs don't like that type of stuff. BoDs also hate the Dear Sky Steward stuff too. And then having workers in open revolt. Plus being in 11, all at the same time. Makes them question management.

You can keep posting:

"AA will emerge from chapter 11 as a standalone. The future of the airline will be dtermined by the current management team not by Parker and that crappy product at US."

Even while AMR is saying:

"To be clear, American has committed to work in collaboration with the (creditors) committee to develop only potential consolidation scenarios and this agreement does not in any way suggest that a transaction of any kind or with any particular party will be pursued"

Of course, why spend time and money to work on 'potential consolidation scenarios' if you aren't going to pursue them, assuming they are superior to what management has put out there?

chicaloca453

Point taken. And I don't think everyone is having second thoughts. What I meant (but didn't articulate well) is that AA employees are learning what they didn't know before and no doubt some of them are getting nervous and having an "oh crap" moment. Lots of statements in this forum have mentioned AA employees saying they didn't know x y and z about US.

As far as 13,000 jobs, aren't a lot of those in call centers (who aren't union)? I have to wonder how Parker can promise to save call center jobs when he is the king of outsourcing these jobs to Manilla and Mumbai. And he's obviously not courting call center workers since they're not represented by unions.

I really think Parker sold the employees a bill of goods and his own employees know he won't be able to deliver. And I think AA employees are probably starting to fear the US Employees are correct.

lyiu18

Most of 13,000 should be in union

American said it expects to trim about 4,600 mechanics and related jobs, about 4,200 fleet service workers, about 2,300 flight attendants, about 1,400 management and support staff and about 400 pilots.
From Reuters

AAFA

I would urge you to stop being so insufferably condescending, stick to your non bankruptcy law, and lose a little bit of the chip. I don't just attend union meetings to get my information. I am fully aware who makes up the cc, and i'm also a front line.
We've managed to disagree on this board for years without the distasteful tone that pervades every post I have read of yours.
As far as the bk proceedings go, just watch the show and I'll be back later on. I'm taking a break from you.

elitetraveler

Let's see,

-you had no idea AMR had announced they needed outside funding after deciding not to terminate the pensions,
-you stated there were no BoD from the Crandall error to which you were wrong,

Now you are saying Horton was on record pre-11 as wanting consolidation with BA. What would be the point for IAG (BA's parent) to take a minority stake without control? What further 'consolidation' could even take place with out changes to the laws governing foreign investment?

Perhaps the WSJ article you are talking about is at the link below:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...007541528.html

'Mr. Horton said AMR isn't interested in merger opportunities while it is in bankruptcy-court protection. "Contemplating a merger in the middle of a complex restructuring is like running a marathon with a backpack on. You just wouldn't do it." '

This seems a bit different from your statement that the "The protocol agreement announced today changes nothing!!"

I guess Tom and team are being asked to run a marathon with their backpacks on?

ByrdluvsAWACO

You're misinterpreting lax's comments. I remember Arpey stating(can't find the link at the moment) that AA was open to a merger with BA, but recognized that it wouldn't happen until the laws were changed. Horton was probably parroting that same position as such comments would likely have been considered by the AMR BoD.

gegarrenton

You can really give all the smiley faces and such you like, but there is one inescapable conclusion that you don't seem to see if US takes AA (which I personally think is an extremely remote scenario). You are going to have much worse work rules, and there are legions of people like me who simply won't fly your airline anymore. I don't know how you perceive AA, apparently badly, but I pay a serious premium, thousands of dollars a year, and travel ridiculous routes, like going through MIA trying to get from ORF to CHS, simply because the customer service is that much better on AA. US is the bottom of the barrel worst, and I refuse to set foot on a US plane. Period.

elitetraveler

Actually LaxEsq DID NOT say that - he said Arpey was against consolidation, but his underling Horton was - see below...


"Arprey did not want to pursue consolidation. Horton never said that. In fact, before his tenure began as Chairman and CEO he went on record early last Fall endorsing consolidation but, if he had his way it would be with BA."

TWA884

^

LAXJFKesq

Your posts continue to clearly demonstrate you don't have a clue about what's going on in respect to the 1113 process. Here's a very nice summary about yesterday's announcement from the lead counsel representing the UCC. Exactly what I said, yesterday's announcement changed nothing it is part of the process. <redacted>

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...rt-amrs-p.html


UCC attorney: We support AMR's plan, even as we consider alternatives
By
Terry Maxon/Reporter

[email protected] | Bio
5:35 PM on Fri., May. 11, 2012 | Permalink

Jack Butler, attorney for the unsecured creditors committee, gave this statement after AMR announced that it and the UCC have agreed to explore potential consolidatoin:

"Much has been said in AMR's chapter 11 cases and in media reports regarding consolidation matters and potential strategic alternatives, including the role of the Official Committee of Unsecured Creditors in such a process.
"The Committee believes that its consideration of all reasonable and viable strategic alternatives is a core responsibility under its statutory mandate, and indeed the Debtors have acknowledged the Committee's role in this process.

"But as the Committee earlier noted in hearings before the Bankruptcy Court, the Committee supports the Debtors' business judgment in pursuing a robust, stand-alone business plan on a path that could lead to an early emergence and against which strategic alternatives can be vetted before any reorganization plan is formulated or prosecuted.

"The important point is that both the Debtors and the Committee are in alignment that it is incumbent on them to explore strategic alternatives on a collaborative basis as part of this chapter 11 case. As evidence of this alignment, the Debtors and the Committee have entered into a binding protocol agreement to jointly explore such alternatives."

Butler's statement about supporting AMR/American's stand-alone plan echoes his opening remarks April 23 in the hearings to consider rejecting American's labor contracts.

Butler is a Chicago-based attorney with Skadden Arps Slate Meagher & Flom LLP, the lead bankruptcy counsel for the unsecured creditors committee.

LAXJFKesq

I have tremendous respect for the AA employees. I am a customer of AA with more than 4 Million miles and EXP, each year, for the past decade. My flying preference is with AA where I have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars through the years on business and personal travel -- domestic and international. For full disclosure, I do have roughly 250K miles on US due to the fact that I also work out of our DC office and have to take the shuttle when AA Eagle's schedule does not work with my schedule.

While I respect the professional job you and your colleagues do to always give me a tremendous flying experience, I find it disturbing how your union leadership wants to destroy this great airline into the ground with their actions. For 6 years your union leadership has failed to negotitate a new deal with AA. Yet, all we haer from the union/its members is that it is management's fault.

Really? As I previously posted, a review of AMR's 10K shows that the business plan was working until the soaring fuel prices hit in 2008 and continue through today. Yet, the US Airways that you seem to be in love with so much went through chapter 11 twice and lost as much as AA in 2008 due to fuel despite having a much lower cost structure and after a merger. Somehow you failed to note that small fact.

If I was in your shoes I would remove the emotion and not take what the union leadership says to the bank. In today's world there are scores of sources for information. Use it to your advantage to make an informed decision. Otherwise, trust me, highly likely your CBA will be terminated when the 1113 process concludes.

LAXJFKesq

Lol.

I already acknowledged several times that I was wrong regarding AA seeking outside funding. I missed that. Also, I stand corrected on my statement regarding not 1 BoD Member remaining from the Crandall tenure. However, my error has nothing to do with your outlandish comment/implication regarding the BoD is ready to pull the plug on Horton.

Furthermore, you are very wrong regarding Crandall being silent on AA since his departure. He has been a regular guest on CNBC to discuss AA and the industry.

While I am happy you keep harping on a mistake I acknowedged several times, I am yet to see you take ownership of your "many" mistakes/ Then when I provide you the information and display your errors somehow you go radio silent and disappear from responding. Hmmmmm. I am happy to point them out in this thread, again, if you would like me to do so?

<redacted> My post on Horton clearly said he spoke about consolidation prior to his tenure beginning as CEO of AA. Yet, just like the semantics game you like to play, you post an article from the WSJ from 2 months ago that is not germane to the discussion. What a surprise.

Therefore, here is the artilce I was referenced:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/...-a-b-a-merger/


AUGUST 1, 2011, 11:50 AM
American Airlines Hopes for a B.A. Merger
By MICHAEL J. DE LA MERCED

Could another big airline merger take off? The president of American Airlines‘ parent company hopes so.

Thomas W. Horton, president of the AMR Corporation, told The Times of London that he hoped to see a merger of his company with the International Airlines Group, which owns British Airways and Iberia.There is just one issue right now: United States law prohibits foreign entities from owning more than 25 percent of an American airline. But Mr. Horton said he hoped that would change in his lifetime.

American Airlines and British Airways already have an alliance in which the two share revenue and coordinate flight schedules. Mr. Horton said that a formal merger of the two was an inevitable next step

elitetraveler

Just so you can match what was with what is…

'Mr. Horton said AMR isn't interested in merger opportunities while it is in bankruptcy-court protection. "Contemplating a merger in the middle of a complex restructuring is like running a marathon with a backpack on. You just wouldn't do it."

Get it now? AMR management wasn't "in alignment." Horton had said he was not interested in a merger while in 11. AMR management is now going to look and see if it makes sense. Yes, it is nuanced. It is not Paul Revere yelling out "The British are coming," it is not the Titanic sending an "SOS." but it marks a very big change that AMR management will not be able to just pass quickly through 11 with its plan rubber stamped. It is subtle. You many not have picked it up?