AS to Introduce "Saver Fares" (Basic Economy), End Fee Waivers and Add Fees
#61
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 495
Alaska to start charging for exit rows, and eliminating 60 change fee waiver
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...rgin-on-track/
Alaska will begin charging for exit rows, and will eliminate the current process that allows for itinerary changes for free if they are made 60 days out from departure. Alaska also plans to introduce basic economy. Personally, as a basic MVP, losing the perk of booking directly into exit row when premium economy is full will be a bummer. I think i've only used the 60 day waiver once, so that won't be a terrible loss for me. As for basic economy, I get the business decision, but I don't plan on booking those fares.
It's unfortunate that almost all of these changes seem to damage the Alaska brand we've come to love. I thought Alaska prided themselves on being the best, seems like they are racing to the bottom in this case. Not sure that any of these changes are "More to Love" or "West coast vibes".
Alaska will begin charging for exit rows, and will eliminate the current process that allows for itinerary changes for free if they are made 60 days out from departure. Alaska also plans to introduce basic economy. Personally, as a basic MVP, losing the perk of booking directly into exit row when premium economy is full will be a bummer. I think i've only used the 60 day waiver once, so that won't be a terrible loss for me. As for basic economy, I get the business decision, but I don't plan on booking those fares.
It's unfortunate that almost all of these changes seem to damage the Alaska brand we've come to love. I thought Alaska prided themselves on being the best, seems like they are racing to the bottom in this case. Not sure that any of these changes are "More to Love" or "West coast vibes".
#62
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long thread already
Last edited by dayone; Apr 24, 2018 at 7:51 am Reason: Remove circular link.
#63
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 495
For me the biggest disappointment is losing the 60 day waiver. Perhaps if we all write to Brad about our discontent on the topic, hell get the message. I know it sounds unlikely, but hey, enough voices stopped American from introducing 30 inch pitch on their max fleet
#64
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https://thepointsguy.com/2017/11/fir...ing-737-max-8/
#65
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Falls Gulch VA
Posts: 222
Not really. The former lowest fare - at least on United - allowed me to select a seat, an aisle if I prefer, when I make my reservation, and I didn't always get assigned to the last boarding group. The "Basic" fare doesn't allow pre-assigned seating and you're always in the last group to board. So for me, I see it as a fare increase of about $35 on my typical IAD-LAX flights. Fares go up and fares go down, but the "get out of jail" fee has been pretty consistent since they implemented it.
#66
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Falls Gulch VA
Posts: 222
To be honest, this looks like an implemention of basic economy that I would actually buy. I don't mind sitting in the back so long as I have an assigned seats.
Alaska may have figured out how to carve this out just right so that frequent flyers won't buy it but price-sensitive families will, and won't have a horrible experience .
Alaska may have figured out how to carve this out just right so that frequent flyers won't buy it but price-sensitive families will, and won't have a horrible experience .
I wish Southwest had a decent way to get from IAD or DCA to the West Coast. They have reasonable schedules and good fares from BWI, but getting there from my home is really inconvenient, whereas I can get to the Virginia airports with a short cab ride and inexpensive and efficient public transportation.
#67
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,876
So why does Alaska charge a premium if they are taking away all of the benefits? They don't have a network outside of the West Coast (as in you cannot get anywhere within the eastern side of the country without having to double back west, all the way to the coast). They don't have the most convenient timings even to Anchorage (Delta has arrivals at midnight, their corresponding arrival is 2am?).
#68
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Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
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Right, but if the fare drops... odds are good the lowest fare was R already, and odds are excellent the lowest fare available on a GARR or a cancel/rebook IS R.
"Hey, you can totally take $5 off that fare using GARR. Kiss your upgrades goodbye. Kiss SDC goodbye. No Premium class. No exit row. No drink in coach. Reduced earnings. Enjoy your low fare guarantee. We have technically offered you one just like Southwest does, since Southwest doesn't actually punish you for saving $5 on a fare drop, and we do, and the fact we made it very unattractive for you to use it doesn't mean we got rid of it."
"Hey, you can totally take $5 off that fare using GARR. Kiss your upgrades goodbye. Kiss SDC goodbye. No Premium class. No exit row. No drink in coach. Reduced earnings. Enjoy your low fare guarantee. We have technically offered you one just like Southwest does, since Southwest doesn't actually punish you for saving $5 on a fare drop, and we do, and the fact we made it very unattractive for you to use it doesn't mean we got rid of it."
Imagine if a hotel said "well, you can use our lowest rate guarantee, but we will rebook you into the room with a view of the air conditioning vents, and it's next to the elevator and ice machine. Oh, plus it's half the size of the other rooms. You can't be upgraded out of it or get complimentary breakfast as an elite benefit either". Not much of a guarantee if you ask me. To be honest, you might as well get rid of the GARR because you're going to have to do a big "HEY DUMMY, YOU BOOK THIS FARE IT'S GONNA SUCK" alert any time anyone uses a GARR and it books into an R fare. That isn't going to help with customer satisfaction, is it?
Note that DL/AA/UA don't offer guaranteed lowest fares...
Note that DL/AA/UA don't offer guaranteed lowest fares...
There's nothing about BE that's focused on customer satisfaction. It's about revenue generation. It's about getting existing customers to either pay more, or giving customers less for the money. I'm not sure where you got the idea customer sat is part of the equation. It's not. There are very few people who like these fares. Some tolerate them. Some pay more to avoid them. Some move their business elsewhere. It's a frustration point for customers who buy them and don't realize what they're getting (or not getting). It's a customer sat disaster. That's not the point.
They have literally sold tickets for $27 one-way intra-California. A 75K can select Premium Class at booking, get upgraded, checked a bag or two, and claim a BSG if they fail. I can understand why they don't want to continue doing that. Of course I don't like the change, but I can also understand the necessity.
UA had a lot of challenges implementing BE -- they were applying it to high fares and really frustrating customers. Now they seem to have a more reasonable handle on it.
Example: SFO-EWR
Basic Economy: $114
Regular Economy: $144
Once you get to a higher price point ($179), BE is no longer offered.
Example: SFO-LAX
Basic Economy: $45
Regular Economy: $62
Price Point at which BE is no longer offered: $76
Do I like it? No. But is it avoidable? Sure. If WN or someone else has a better value proposition, by all means, go for it. There is no doubt some business loss factored into the calculations.
#69
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does the 60 day fee waiver cut go into effect immediately? i'm thinking about grabbing an award ticket to NZ for next spring, but would need the flexibility to redeposit it if i decide i can't go.
#70
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: BART Platinum, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 1,158
Its not obvious that its just going to be slapped on to R fares. An AS exec statement from the conference call:
I might not get into all of the specifics but I think you've got the variables right, we're sort of assuming a large percentage of the network and a good number of the fare classes would have [Saver] attached to it.
Last edited by milypan; Apr 24, 2018 at 10:40 am
#71
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Gold; NEXUS
Posts: 980
"Good number of the fare classes"... hmmm... https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alas...s-buckets.html
Not sure where that OP got the types for each class, but if the fares with "Saver" next to them now have these rules attached, I'm done. Might as well book on DL and operate on dollars spent rather than miles if they are going to neuter the program this way. It makes MileagePlan's advantage over SkyPesos away.
Not sure where that OP got the types for each class, but if the fares with "Saver" next to them now have these rules attached, I'm done. Might as well book on DL and operate on dollars spent rather than miles if they are going to neuter the program this way. It makes MileagePlan's advantage over SkyPesos away.
#72
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"Good number of the fare classes"... hmmm... https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alas...s-buckets.html
Not sure where that OP got the types for each class, but if the fares with "Saver" next to them now have these rules attached, I'm done. Might as well book on DL and operate on dollars spent rather than miles if they are going to neuter the program this way. It makes MileagePlan's advantage over SkyPesos away.
Not sure where that OP got the types for each class, but if the fares with "Saver" next to them now have these rules attached, I'm done. Might as well book on DL and operate on dollars spent rather than miles if they are going to neuter the program this way. It makes MileagePlan's advantage over SkyPesos away.
This is UA SFO-EWR:
GAA2AQBS UA G One-Way 104.00(USD)
GAA4AQBS UA G One-Way 109.00(USD)
GAA2AHBN UA G One-Way 114.00(USD)
GAK2AHBN UA G One-Way 114.00(USD)
GAA2AQBN UA G One-Way 119.00(USD)
GAA4AHBN UA G One-Way 119.00(USD)
GAA4AQBN UA G One-Way 119.00(USD)
GAK4AHBN UA G One-Way 119.00(USD)
GAA2AQDS UA G One-Way 129.00(USD)
In this example, the second to last character indicates whether it's a BE fare or not. The $104-$119 are BE fares. The $129 is a regular economy fare. Both must have G bucket available to book. If you buy the BE fare, you'll be booked into N, even though you've bought a G fare. If you buy the regular economy fare, you'll get booked into G.
If AS implements it like this, several fare buckets can have BE "attached" to it. But you can also buy it as a regular fare too.
#73
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: BART Platinum, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 1,158
Yeah the UA model was immediately what came to mind when I saw the quote. UA has dialed it back somewhat, so hopefully AS will start by matching what UA is doing now, rather than what UA did at the beginning.
#74
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat
Posts: 756
Considering that Delta already has a basic economy fare that is similar or slightly more restrictive, a comparatively mediocre and lower rated FF program with a spend requirement, and half the number of flights from Seattle, I'm not really sure why you would. It's all relative.
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...rgin-on-track/
Alaska will begin charging for exit rows, and will eliminate the current process that allows for itinerary changes for free if they are made 60 days out from departure. Alaska also plans to introduce basic economy. Personally, as a basic MVP, losing the perk of booking directly into exit row when premium economy is full will be a bummer. I think i've only used the 60 day waiver once, so that won't be a terrible loss for me. As for basic economy, I get the business decision, but I don't plan on booking those fares.
It's unfortunate that almost all of these changes seem to damage the Alaska brand we've come to love. I thought Alaska prided themselves on being the best, seems like they are racing to the bottom in this case. Not sure that any of these changes are "More to Love" or "West coast vibes".
Alaska will begin charging for exit rows, and will eliminate the current process that allows for itinerary changes for free if they are made 60 days out from departure. Alaska also plans to introduce basic economy. Personally, as a basic MVP, losing the perk of booking directly into exit row when premium economy is full will be a bummer. I think i've only used the 60 day waiver once, so that won't be a terrible loss for me. As for basic economy, I get the business decision, but I don't plan on booking those fares.
It's unfortunate that almost all of these changes seem to damage the Alaska brand we've come to love. I thought Alaska prided themselves on being the best, seems like they are racing to the bottom in this case. Not sure that any of these changes are "More to Love" or "West coast vibes".
I really would have like them to simply increase the grace period to like 90 days or 120 days. It still keeps the benefit while also giving the airline more time to fill the seat.
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
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Posts: 20,421
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Or you could... make the beancounters happy and eliminate LFG/GARR. I mean, if you're trying to make more money by pushing BE, why not capture more revenue that way by eliminating a way to take advantage of price drops? And in theory Gold+ can still do it by a cancel/rebook.
There's nothing about BE that's focused on customer satisfaction. It's about revenue generation. It's about getting existing customers to either pay more, or giving customers less for the money. I'm not sure where you got the idea customer sat is part of the equation. It's not. There are very few people who like these fares. Some tolerate them. Some pay more to avoid them. Some move their business elsewhere. It's a frustration point for customers who buy them and don't realize what they're getting (or not getting). It's a customer sat disaster. That's not the point.
They have literally sold tickets for $27 one-way intra-California. A 75K can select Premium Class at booking, get upgraded, checked a bag or two, and claim a BSG if they fail. I can understand why they don't want to continue doing that. Of course I don't like the change, but I can also understand the necessity.
AS's response is going to be to degrade the product they offer in those markets (ALL of the products, Y, Y+ and F). You can't say that VX MCS/F wasn't a better product than anything offered intra-CA. What was the market's response? More WN, please (WN has more market share at SFO+LAX than VX does). So what's AS"s value proposition over WN intra-CA? A plate of pita and hummus on a 60 minute flight? Because it's sure not schedule or value. Ability to fly or redeem to Hawaii? That's probably gone in 12 months.
I suspect they will muddle along (hey, NK does just fine hosing customers). But offering UA/AA/DL's products without UA/AA/DL's reach against WN... it didn't work to keep WN out of California. Is the strategy to just bottom-feed their way to market share NK style?
Soon what will be left is AS doesn't have elite spend requirements and a mile flown is a mile earned. For now. We'll see how long that lasts. If the beancounters demand BE, why shouldn't they demand that?
Good luck with the "leisure enthusiasts", AS. You're going to need it.
Last edited by eponymous_coward; Apr 24, 2018 at 11:20 am