ASA_1

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...rgin-on-track/

Alaska will begin charging for exit rows, and will eliminate the current process that allows for itinerary changes for free if they are made 60 days out from departure. Alaska also plans to introduce basic economy. Personally, as a basic MVP, losing the perk of booking directly into exit row when premium economy is full will be a bummer. I think i've only used the 60 day waiver once, so that won't be a terrible loss for me. As for basic economy, I get the business decision, but I don't plan on booking those fares.

It's unfortunate that almost all of these changes seem to damage the Alaska brand we've come to love. I thought Alaska prided themselves on being the best, seems like they are racing to the bottom in this case. Not sure that any of these changes are "More to Love" or "West coast vibes".

jrl767

long thread already

ASA_1

For me the biggest disappointment is losing the 60 day waiver. Perhaps if we all write to Brad about our discontent on the topic, he’ll get the message. I know it sounds unlikely, but hey, enough voices stopped American from introducing 30 inch pitch on their max fleet

3Cforme

Correction: Voices stopped AA from adding some 29" seats. They're still bringing 30" to Max 8 and refurbed 738s.

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/11/fir...ing-737-max-8/

Mike Rivers

Not really. The former lowest fare - at least on United - allowed me to select a seat, an aisle if I prefer, when I make my reservation, and I didn't always get assigned to the last boarding group. The "Basic" fare doesn't allow pre-assigned seating and you're always in the last group to board. So for me, I see it as a fare increase of about $35 on my typical IAD-LAX flights. Fares go up and fares go down, but the "get out of jail" fee has been pretty consistent since they implemented it.

Mike Rivers

I usually end up sitting in the back of the bus because of the fares I pay, but does the Alaska plan still offer a reserved aisle seat? I'll have to re-read it. The problem with being in the last boarding group, though, can be a problem on a crowded flight for someone like me who has become accustomed to not checking baggage, but carrying on everything. Checking my bag is one more risk of something going wrong, and realistically adds about half an hour to the total travel time.

I wish Southwest had a decent way to get from IAD or DCA to the West Coast. They have reasonable schedules and good fares from BWI, but getting there from my home is really inconvenient, whereas I can get to the Virginia airports with a short cab ride and inexpensive and efficient public transportation.

s0ssos

So why does Alaska charge a premium if they are taking away all of the benefits? They don't have a network outside of the West Coast (as in you cannot get anywhere within the eastern side of the country without having to double back west, all the way to the coast). They don't have the most convenient timings even to Anchorage (Delta has arrivals at midnight, their corresponding arrival is 2am?).

channa

Why would you low-fare guarantee to a lesser product, unless you want that lesser product? You would presumably LFG to the product you purchased.


The hotel example is also rebooking to a different product.

There's nothing about BE that's focused on customer satisfaction. It's about revenue generation. It's about getting existing customers to either pay more, or giving customers less for the money. I'm not sure where you got the idea customer sat is part of the equation. It's not. There are very few people who like these fares. Some tolerate them. Some pay more to avoid them. Some move their business elsewhere. It's a frustration point for customers who buy them and don't realize what they're getting (or not getting). It's a customer sat disaster. That's not the point.

They have literally sold tickets for $27 one-way intra-California. A 75K can select Premium Class at booking, get upgraded, checked a bag or two, and claim a BSG if they fail. I can understand why they don't want to continue doing that. Of course I don't like the change, but I can also understand the necessity.

UA had a lot of challenges implementing BE -- they were applying it to high fares and really frustrating customers. Now they seem to have a more reasonable handle on it.

Example: SFO-EWR
Basic Economy: $114
Regular Economy: $144
Once you get to a higher price point ($179), BE is no longer offered.

Example: SFO-LAX
Basic Economy: $45
Regular Economy: $62
Price Point at which BE is no longer offered: $76


Do I like it? No. But is it avoidable? Sure. If WN or someone else has a better value proposition, by all means, go for it. There is no doubt some business loss factored into the calculations.

PV_Premier

does the 60 day fee waiver cut go into effect immediately? i'm thinking about grabbing an award ticket to NZ for next spring, but would need the flexibility to redeposit it if i decide i can't go.

milypan

It’s not obvious that it’s just going to be slapped on to R fares. An AS exec statement from the conference call:

sullim4

"Good number of the fare classes"... hmmm... https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alas...s-buckets.html

Not sure where that OP got the types for each class, but if the fares with "Saver" next to them now have these rules attached, I'm done. Might as well book on DL and operate on dollars spent rather than miles if they are going to neuter the program this way. It makes MileagePlan's advantage over SkyPesos away.

channa

Watch how the other airlines have done it. The same fare class can be purchased as BE or regular. The price point is what changes.

This is UA SFO-EWR:
GAA2AQBS UA G One-Way 104.00(USD)
GAA4AQBS UA G One-Way 109.00(USD)
GAA2AHBN UA G One-Way 114.00(USD)
GAK2AHBN UA G One-Way 114.00(USD)
GAA2AQBN UA G One-Way 119.00(USD)
GAA4AHBN UA G One-Way 119.00(USD)
GAA4AQBN UA G One-Way 119.00(USD)
GAK4AHBN UA G One-Way 119.00(USD)
GAA2AQDS UA G One-Way 129.00(USD)

In this example, the second to last character indicates whether it's a BE fare or not. The $104-$119 are BE fares. The $129 is a regular economy fare. Both must have G bucket available to book. If you buy the BE fare, you'll be booked into N, even though you've bought a G fare. If you buy the regular economy fare, you'll get booked into G.

If AS implements it like this, several fare buckets can have BE "attached" to it. But you can also buy it as a regular fare too.

milypan

Yeah the UA model was immediately what came to mind when I saw the quote. UA has dialed it back somewhat, so hopefully AS will start by matching what UA is doing now, rather than what UA did at the beginning.

Explorer789

For those in SEA, you might as well go DL for status because AS will basically give you a free status match without having to complete a challenge. Also worth noting they are the only major airline that does this, so I fear this will also be devalued soon and they basically become what everyone hates about the big 3.

I feel that those amex cardholders users who have been gaming the free refunds have at least partly contributed to this. The workaround to getting the travel credit reimbursement was that you could buy a refundable ticket for less $100, cancel it, and save the money to your AS MyWallet. Might sound harmless, but there's probably other transaction fees and overhead being incurred for AS for cancelling tickets.

I really would have like them to simply increase the grace period to like 90 days or 120 days. It still keeps the benefit while also giving the airline more time to fill the seat.

eponymous_coward

What makes you think they're going to let you LFG/GARR and make sure you don't end up in BE? If the BE fare is the lowest fare in the market that's been filed, isn't that what you're going to get? Otherwise you have to do a bunch of special logic, and it's not at all straightforward ("but the website said the fare was $110, why is the LFG saying it's actually $150?").
.
Or you could... make the beancounters happy and eliminate LFG/GARR. I mean, if you're trying to make more money by pushing BE, why not capture more revenue that way by eliminating a way to take advantage of price drops? And in theory Gold+ can still do it by a cancel/rebook.

The LFG/GARR is part of customer satisfaction, though. It's part of AS competing with WN. And having a BE product is very much at odds with WN-style "hey, if the price drops, you can get some money back", since the entire point of BE is "no waivers, no favors, buy the ticket and take the ride in the back of the bus, or throw it away". This is why I think it's not long for this world once BE gets rolled out (again, note that AA/DL/UA don't offer a LFG that is competitive with WN). But hey. could be wrong.

The reason they're doing that is AS aggressively matches WN pricing, and WN isn't messing around with defending their intra-CA turf and is going to happily try and bleed AS dry and try to chase them off of SFO/SJC-SAN/LAX/BUR the same way they're being chased off of SFO-JFK with low, low prices. WN is offering two checked bags, cancel and refund with no fee, on hour long flights. For the same $27.

AS's response is going to be to degrade the product they offer in those markets (ALL of the products, Y, Y+ and F). You can't say that VX MCS/F wasn't a better product than anything offered intra-CA. What was the market's response? More WN, please (WN has more market share at SFO+LAX than VX does). So what's AS"s value proposition over WN intra-CA? A plate of pita and hummus on a 60 minute flight? Because it's sure not schedule or value. Ability to fly or redeem to Hawaii? That's probably gone in 12 months.

I suspect they will muddle along (hey, NK does just fine hosing customers). But offering UA/AA/DL's products without UA/AA/DL's reach against WN... it didn't work to keep WN out of California. Is the strategy to just bottom-feed their way to market share NK style?

I don't doubt it, but turning yourself into a clone of UA/AA/DL when you don't actually fly the big jets, have a much smaller network, and the market you want to expand into is full of WN's unique value proposition (and also has UA/AA/DL, so it's not like CA lacks options) doesn't strike me as much of a value proposition.

Soon what will be left is AS doesn't have elite spend requirements and a mile flown is a mile earned. For now. We'll see how long that lasts. If the beancounters demand BE, why shouldn't they demand that?

Good luck with the "leisure enthusiasts", AS. You're going to need it.