Nov 20, 2017, 2:16 pm
Last edit by: Argonaut1000
Click here to go to a picture of the White Compensation Form and its stub
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
- Go the home screen "Your Seat". (find this on the seat side panel; not the main video screen)
- Hold the top left hand corner "Air Canada" (with AC logo) for 3 seconds. Updated (Apr 9 18): may need to hold for as long as 45 seconds for key pad to appear
- Dial pad shows up - hit 3-2-1.
- Press "Reset Lumbar Support"
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight
Nov 21, 2017, 6:21 pm
#121
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
If you guys are going to go through with this, may I offer a suggestion?
Instead of contacting the vendor, document each incidents with the SD and follow up with Cusomter Relations every single time.
This will allow AC to build a document case on incident/maintenance reports, as well as repair and customer goodwill cost (Maintenance records and customer relations records of costs/compensation offered). AC will then have a solid case to present to their vendor in order to solve the issue.
Contacting the vendor directly will certainly create amazing lulz and memes, but in the end it may just complicate the situation further if it's actually taken seriously.
Just imagine if you think the fish in a restaurant is bad, and then you end up sending formal emails to Noref about the quality of their products.
Instead of contacting the vendor, document each incidents with the SD and follow up with Cusomter Relations every single time.
This will allow AC to build a document case on incident/maintenance reports, as well as repair and customer goodwill cost (Maintenance records and customer relations records of costs/compensation offered). AC will then have a solid case to present to their vendor in order to solve the issue.
Contacting the vendor directly will certainly create amazing lulz and memes, but in the end it may just complicate the situation further if it's actually taken seriously.
Just imagine if you think the fish in a restaurant is bad, and then you end up sending formal emails to Noref about the quality of their products.
Nov 21, 2017, 6:22 pm
#122
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Mississauga Ontario
Posts: 4,105
Nov 21, 2017, 7:34 pm
#123
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Hilton
Posts: 2,923
From a more devious perspective, there is a higher degree of care applied to product classes like aviation. As soon as one references the possibility of bodily injury, there is an obligation to investigate. For example, I was recently onboard Airline XXX , flight no. ### (AAA- ZZZ) and was assigned a seat manufactured by your company. The seat suffered a malfunction that caused me to suffer pain in my back and extended discomfort and anguish. As much as I hold the airline liable, I also hold you, the manufacturer of an apparent defective product , for my injury. I ask for your assistance in resolving this matter in a fair manner. CC Airline.
If you guys are going to go through with this, may I offer a suggestion?
Instead of contacting the vendor, document each incidents with the SD and follow up with Customer Relations every single time.
This will allow AC to build a document case on incident/maintenance reports, as well as repair and customer goodwill cost (Maintenance records and customer relations records of costs/compensation offered). AC will then have a solid case to present to their vendor in order to solve the issue.
Contacting the vendor directly will certainly create amazing lulz and memes, but in the end it may just complicate the situation further if it's actually taken seriously.
Just imagine if you think the fish in a restaurant is bad, and then you end up sending formal emails to Noref about the quality of their products.
Instead of contacting the vendor, document each incidents with the SD and follow up with Customer Relations every single time.
This will allow AC to build a document case on incident/maintenance reports, as well as repair and customer goodwill cost (Maintenance records and customer relations records of costs/compensation offered). AC will then have a solid case to present to their vendor in order to solve the issue.
Contacting the vendor directly will certainly create amazing lulz and memes, but in the end it may just complicate the situation further if it's actually taken seriously.
Just imagine if you think the fish in a restaurant is bad, and then you end up sending formal emails to Noref about the quality of their products.
This may not even be a seat defect, but a software control issue related to the IFE system or other software that is unrelated to the seat manufacturer. Alerting the seat manufacturer to the defect might cause the manufacturer to offer a statement such as Our investigation is that the cause of the sudden deflation of seats is not related to the seat mechanism itself. Please contact your airline customer care service to follow up on your concern. This puts the onus on the airline to address the issue.
If one does not speak up when injured, then one must accept the injury in stoic silence.
Nov 22, 2017, 4:16 am
#124
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Mississauga Ontario
Posts: 4,105
Nov 22, 2017, 12:11 pm
#126
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,428
Wow, I'm surprised this has turned into such a big thread so late into the game... the problem is VERY common. On my last trip, 2/3 of our seats were deflated, and when I overheard a guy complaining and saw the FA didn't know how to do it, I fixed it for him. Soon enough, two other people came up to me with broken seats. Luckily I haven't experienced complete deflation during the flight, but it's not uncommon to feel the seat pumping under you during the flight. The idea is great but I'm not sure if the problems outweigh the issues (probably not). I've also found J full on all my recent flights, so I'm not sure how moving around would be possible on these. I once had a GA ask if I'd like to switch because a screen was broken, but I declined. But never about the seat...
Nov 22, 2017, 12:39 pm
#127
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: YHZ/YQM
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 1,618
Here are my completely uninformed guesses based on recent trends:
SCENARIO A:
1 - The original design specified a material for the inflatable cushion that would stand up to years of use in a harsh environment.
2 - The original manufacturer of said material was either bought out or subcontracted the manufacturing of said material to a third party.
3 - The new/subcontracted manufacturer does not meet the original specifications, so the seat does not hold air after a period of use.
SCENARIO B:
1 - The manufacturer offered two grades of material for the inflatable cushion. The high grade material was guaranteed to stand up for many years of use. The lower grade material was a few dollars cheaper.
2 - AC chose the lower grade material to save a few bucks a seat and increase somebody's bonus
3 - The lower grade material does not hold air after a period of use.
SCENARIO C:
1 - The manufacturer recommends that the seat cushions be replaced every X number of years, where X is quite small.
2 - AC tries to extend the life by using them for X+Y years, thus saving money and increasing somebody's bonus.
3 - The seats are starting to fail because they are past their rated life.
SCENARIO D:
1 - A disgruntled long-haul frequent flyer is upset by insufficient KitKats and is systematically punching very small holes in cushions on every flight that he takes using a cleverly designed tool disguised as an everyday object.
SCENARIO A:
1 - The original design specified a material for the inflatable cushion that would stand up to years of use in a harsh environment.
2 - The original manufacturer of said material was either bought out or subcontracted the manufacturing of said material to a third party.
3 - The new/subcontracted manufacturer does not meet the original specifications, so the seat does not hold air after a period of use.
SCENARIO B:
1 - The manufacturer offered two grades of material for the inflatable cushion. The high grade material was guaranteed to stand up for many years of use. The lower grade material was a few dollars cheaper.
2 - AC chose the lower grade material to save a few bucks a seat and increase somebody's bonus
3 - The lower grade material does not hold air after a period of use.
SCENARIO C:
1 - The manufacturer recommends that the seat cushions be replaced every X number of years, where X is quite small.
2 - AC tries to extend the life by using them for X+Y years, thus saving money and increasing somebody's bonus.
3 - The seats are starting to fail because they are past their rated life.
SCENARIO D:
1 - A disgruntled long-haul frequent flyer is upset by insufficient KitKats and is systematically punching very small holes in cushions on every flight that he takes using a cleverly designed tool disguised as an everyday object.
Nov 22, 2017, 1:31 pm
#128
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,428
Here are my completely uninformed guesses based on recent trends:
SCENARIO A:
1 - The original design specified a material for the inflatable cushion that would stand up to years of use in a harsh environment.
2 - The original manufacturer of said material was either bought out or subcontracted the manufacturing of said material to a third party.
3 - The new/subcontracted manufacturer does not meet the original specifications, so the seat does not hold air after a period of use.
SCENARIO B:
1 - The manufacturer offered two grades of material for the inflatable cushion. The high grade material was guaranteed to stand up for many years of use. The lower grade material was a few dollars cheaper.
2 - AC chose the lower grade material to save a few bucks a seat and increase somebody's bonus
3 - The lower grade material does not hold air after a period of use.
SCENARIO C:
1 - The manufacturer recommends that the seat cushions be replaced every X number of years, where X is quite small.
2 - AC tries to extend the life by using them for X+Y years, thus saving money and increasing somebody's bonus.
3 - The seats are starting to fail because they are past their rated life.
SCENARIO D:
1 - A disgruntled long-haul frequent flyer is upset by insufficient KitKats and is systematically punching very small holes in cushions on every flight that he takes using a cleverly designed tool disguised as an everyday object.
SCENARIO A:
1 - The original design specified a material for the inflatable cushion that would stand up to years of use in a harsh environment.
2 - The original manufacturer of said material was either bought out or subcontracted the manufacturing of said material to a third party.
3 - The new/subcontracted manufacturer does not meet the original specifications, so the seat does not hold air after a period of use.
SCENARIO B:
1 - The manufacturer offered two grades of material for the inflatable cushion. The high grade material was guaranteed to stand up for many years of use. The lower grade material was a few dollars cheaper.
2 - AC chose the lower grade material to save a few bucks a seat and increase somebody's bonus
3 - The lower grade material does not hold air after a period of use.
SCENARIO C:
1 - The manufacturer recommends that the seat cushions be replaced every X number of years, where X is quite small.
2 - AC tries to extend the life by using them for X+Y years, thus saving money and increasing somebody's bonus.
3 - The seats are starting to fail because they are past their rated life.
SCENARIO D:
1 - A disgruntled long-haul frequent flyer is upset by insufficient KitKats and is systematically punching very small holes in cushions on every flight that he takes using a cleverly designed tool disguised as an everyday object.
The seats are defective i.e. they do not meet the original specifications. Not sure how widespread this is on other carriers using the same seat. Perhaps the other carriers have been fixing the issue more proactively.
Nov 22, 2017, 2:31 pm
#130
Join Date: May 2004
Location: yyz
Programs: AC*SE 1MM. a bunch of hotel programs.
Posts: 1,592
Tangent - i've not had this specific issue but on more than 3 occasions, while flat i've noticed the massage function turning on by itself. At first i thought it was the old nightcap, but it repeated. I assumed it was the massage function as it felt like there was a 'bubble'
anyone else had this ?
anyone else had this ?
Last edited by karachi; Nov 22, 2017 at 2:32 pm Reason: editing
Nov 23, 2017, 2:41 am
#131
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,347
On AC 3 "today" the crew was asking if I was testing the seat when I got on board.
They'd never heard of the deflation issue.
Luckily I didn't experience it.
They'd never heard of the deflation issue.
Luckily I didn't experience it.
Nov 23, 2017, 9:53 am
#132
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: AC E50K
Posts: 6
Tangent - i've not had this specific issue but on more than 3 occasions, while flat i've noticed the massage function turning on by itself. At first i thought it was the old nightcap, but it repeated. I assumed it was the massage function as it felt like there was a 'bubble'
anyone else had this ?
anyone else had this ?
Nov 23, 2017, 10:03 am
#133
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: YOW
Programs: AC-SE100K, AC-3MM, Marriott- LT Titanium, SPG RIP
Posts: 2,959
Though I just wanted to add a small correction to Scenario D as follows-- bolding/underline mine:
1 - A disgruntled long-haul frequent flyer is upset by insufficient KitKats and is systematically punching very small holes in cushions on every flight that she takes using a cleverly designed tool disguised as an everyday object.
You know who you are
Nov 23, 2017, 8:15 pm
#134
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: YYZ
Posts: 1,675
Nov 23, 2017, 9:50 pm
#135
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: AC SE100k, Marriott Titanium, UA Silver
Posts: 2,648
The crew knew in advance that you've had seat deflation issues? I take it AC higher ups notified the crew that you've been having deflation issues?