Asked to leave business class? Compensation?
Nov 19, 2015, 5:25 pm
#91
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Please point to the clause in the contract of carriage that states "quiet environment" or "tranquil flight". Noone paid for that. And from what it sounds like, if you want to get technical, the parents and kid were the ones who paid for the flight. Perhaps if the upgraders in J didnt like it - they couldve moved back to Y.
And I hope I didnt read that right and you are not suggesting that the child be "muffled by blankets"
And I hope I didnt read that right and you are not suggesting that the child be "muffled by blankets"
Nov 19, 2015, 5:30 pm
#92
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I feel like there has to be more to the story, unless maybe the kids were crying during a portion where everyone were sleeping...but even then, they can't just boot you. If you're in Economy they can't kick you into the lav.
I can't think what would tempt an FA to do this. As much as I would've been absolutely steamed trying to get some sleep after paying my $3000, I'd have a hard time with anyone getting kicked out but not kicked OFF the plane.
I'm not saying anyone is lying, but that something is missing here. Seriously. Who would invite this PR nightmare even if someone in J was complaining and pulling a DYKWIA type move.
The parents really need to control the 3 year old though. Between making a mess and then coloring on the wall, there's gotta be some discipline. Though that doesn't mean kick them out.
As far as the screaming kid, just out of respect for passengers, J or Y...TAKE the kid away. Front galley or better yet back galley as there's more space, assuming this was a 767. Try to settle the kid down, warm milk, whatever it is you do. But just sitting there and hoping it stops seems a bit disrespectful.
I can't think what would tempt an FA to do this. As much as I would've been absolutely steamed trying to get some sleep after paying my $3000, I'd have a hard time with anyone getting kicked out but not kicked OFF the plane.
I'm not saying anyone is lying, but that something is missing here. Seriously. Who would invite this PR nightmare even if someone in J was complaining and pulling a DYKWIA type move.
The parents really need to control the 3 year old though. Between making a mess and then coloring on the wall, there's gotta be some discipline. Though that doesn't mean kick them out.
As far as the screaming kid, just out of respect for passengers, J or Y...TAKE the kid away. Front galley or better yet back galley as there's more space, assuming this was a 767. Try to settle the kid down, warm milk, whatever it is you do. But just sitting there and hoping it stops seems a bit disrespectful.
Last edited by drvannostren; Nov 19, 2015 at 5:35 pm
Nov 19, 2015, 5:36 pm
#93
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Nov 19, 2015, 5:37 pm
#94
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Terms of carriage don't say you must be dressed either. However, AC's product advertises a quiet and refined atmosphere, and that's what 20 other passengers paid for, either full fare or higher economy fare for upgrading with cash and eUps. As for the proper use of a blanket, the same wrapping of the mother and child used for breast feeding in public will muffle much of the crying of an infant.
The passengers paid to get to Japan. If they dont like public transport and all that comes with it fly private.
Last edited by tcook052; Nov 19, 2015 at 9:24 pm
Nov 19, 2015, 5:52 pm
#95
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This case is odd, to say the least. I've seen kids in J who've been unruly, but never a downgrade. Seen parents calm their children down in galleys and seen FAs help children calm by taking them walkabout. Permanent downgrade? Nope.
If AC doesn't want unruly kids in J because they're difficult to control, they shouldn't sell J tickets to people travelling with children. If they do, they really ought to accept some of the risk that goes with it. Or maybe advertise somewhere that unruly kids will result in involuntary downgrades.
The real question is: how would other airlines handle it? I've seen 9W and VS handle it very differently.
Took 2.5 hours for someone else to point out the passport requirement would rule this out.
The irony is that those who want to fact check OPs narrative haven't fact checked their own narrative. Just make it up and hope it sticks, eh?
If AC doesn't want unruly kids in J because they're difficult to control, they shouldn't sell J tickets to people travelling with children. If they do, they really ought to accept some of the risk that goes with it. Or maybe advertise somewhere that unruly kids will result in involuntary downgrades.
The real question is: how would other airlines handle it? I've seen 9W and VS handle it very differently.
The irony is that those who want to fact check OPs narrative haven't fact checked their own narrative. Just make it up and hope it sticks, eh?
Nov 19, 2015, 6:01 pm
#96
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Nov 19, 2015, 6:17 pm
#98
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Seems to me there is a very large part of this story missing. FAs just don't move people unless there is a serious disruption.
Nov 19, 2015, 6:20 pm
#99
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No where does poster list ages of kids, why do you claim lap child is <2 ? does not say that any where I see.
I have seen people try to pull this a few times, claiming child under 2, get a free ride.
They have only paid for 3 seats, Lying about age of child could be considered attempted fraud.
Again my WAG, younger one was 3-5 and was splitting seat with older one after take off. Things went badly got a choice of buying another J seat in the air ( after FA or SD forced issue) or move back to Y
I have seen people try to pull this a few times, claiming child under 2, get a free ride.
They have only paid for 3 seats, Lying about age of child could be considered attempted fraud.
Again my WAG, younger one was 3-5 and was splitting seat with older one after take off. Things went badly got a choice of buying another J seat in the air ( after FA or SD forced issue) or move back to Y
Nov 19, 2015, 6:21 pm
#100
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I don't know how anyone can condone the arbitrary decision of an FA to deprive 4 pax of a Service they *paid* for because a kid was being a kid, but indeed, therein lies the disagreement. I guess some people just want whatever works best for them personally regardless of what's acceptable in public.
Nov 19, 2015, 6:24 pm
#101
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OP is leaving out very substantive points from the story (or wasn't told them by the pax).
Otherwise, very glad to see disruptive children removed from J cabin, though some modest comp is due for the downgrade.
Otherwise, very glad to see disruptive children removed from J cabin, though some modest comp is due for the downgrade.
Nov 19, 2015, 6:25 pm
#102
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Nov 19, 2015, 6:25 pm
#103
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I don't know how anyone can condone the arbitrary decision of an FA to deprive 4 pax of a Service they *paid* for because a kid was being a kid, but indeed, therein lies the disagreement. I guess some people just want whatever works best for them personally regardless of what's acceptable in public.
My original thought was (and could apply in theory to such situations):
... the question is wether the kid paid J or not.
If the kid was a legal lap infant, then they should be entitled to have him on their lap (although....some airlines I think forbid lapchildren on angled pods)
If the kid had a paid Y only, then that would be part of any missing element from the OP story
If the kid was an illegal lap child (over 2 "smuggled" on board as lapchild), then it's a completely different story, but still no reason to penalize all 3 J pax for that.
Last edited by FlyerTalker683455; Nov 19, 2015 at 6:35 pm
Nov 19, 2015, 6:26 pm
#104
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I don't know how anyone can condone the arbitrary decision of an FA to deprive 4 pax of a Service they *paid* for because a kid was being a kid, but indeed, therein lies the disagreement. I guess some people just want whatever works best for them personally regardless of what's acceptable in public.
Most parents would be so ashamed that they....say take their kid out of the restaurant - something that isn't possible onboard, granted, but there are FAR too many missing pieces of this story.
^^
Nov 19, 2015, 6:28 pm
#105
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I think the question is wether the kid paid J or not.
If the kid was a legal lap infant, then they should be entitled to have him on their lap (although....some airlines I think forbid lapchildren on angled pods)
If the kid had a paid Y only, then that would be part of any missing element from the OP story
If the kid was an illegal lap child (over 2 "smuggled" on board as lapchild), then it's a completely different story, but still no reason to penalize all 3 J pax for that.
So, nobody knows, except the OP managed to raise more questions than answers.
If the kid was a legal lap infant, then they should be entitled to have him on their lap (although....some airlines I think forbid lapchildren on angled pods)
If the kid had a paid Y only, then that would be part of any missing element from the OP story
If the kid was an illegal lap child (over 2 "smuggled" on board as lapchild), then it's a completely different story, but still no reason to penalize all 3 J pax for that.
So, nobody knows, except the OP managed to raise more questions than answers.
Info was provided upthread
3 PAID J seats. And then debate ensued or the disruptive nature of crayons.
I'll try to clarify some things. 2 adults, 3 year old and a 16 month old. 3 paid seats, and the infant sat on a lap.
Her 3 year old got popcorn crumbs everywhere, dirtied two blankets from spilled water, and candy. crayon was scribbled on a wall, and somehow broke a reclining seat (not sure how that's possible, but with AC quality it was probably already breaking anyway). Baby was crying for about an hour, but calmed down after. Other PAX were complaining they were too disruptive, so they got the boot. it was a very stressful situation for both parents, last thing they needed was to be told move all their stuff to another seat mid flight.
Her 3 year old got popcorn crumbs everywhere, dirtied two blankets from spilled water, and candy. crayon was scribbled on a wall, and somehow broke a reclining seat (not sure how that's possible, but with AC quality it was probably already breaking anyway). Baby was crying for about an hour, but calmed down after. Other PAX were complaining they were too disruptive, so they got the boot. it was a very stressful situation for both parents, last thing they needed was to be told move all their stuff to another seat mid flight.