Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Apr 1, 2014, 9:44 am
#4621
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Legendary TWA employee Jon Proctor has a web site filled with recollections of his career at TWA. This page of the site has anecdotes about how problematic the 880 "Late Lady" was:
http://jonproctor.net/1966-back-to-lax/
Jon's web site has many great stories, along with pages of photos taken at LAX, SAN, Chicago, and New York, in the 1950s and 1960s. Among other things, Jon was responsible for catering a TWA Convair 880 flight from LAX to CVG that crashed on approach to CVG with heavy loss of life; a very sobering memory.
Apr 1, 2014, 10:23 am
#4622
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http://jonproctor.net/1966-back-to-lax/
Among other things, Jon was responsible for catering a TWA Convair 880 flight from LAX to CVG that crashed on approach to CVG with heavy loss of life; a very sobering memory.
And I believe you are referring to TWA 128 which was attempting to land at Cinncinnati while it was snowing at the airport. This is a very sobering memory indeed as one of my Mom's sisters and her new husband were on board this flight.
They did not survive.....and although this tragedy occurred many years ago, I still think about them....
Apr 1, 2014, 1:54 pm
#4623
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Apr 1, 2014, 2:38 pm
#4624
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12. Regarding the Eskimo who’s image appears on the tails of Alaska Airlines jets – which Alaskan tribal group is he from?
I think this may actually be the Inupiat tribe, perhaps from the Kotzebue region in northwest Alaska.
Correct! His name was Oliver Amouak, and though I've heard his ethnicity is everything from Inupiat to Yupik, I've referenced an article about his son who claims to be Inupiat. For more reading:
Article about Oliver Amouak
Article about Oliver Amouak's Son
The point of this article's inclusion is the son's acknowledgement that he is an Inupiat
Article about how Mr. Amouak became the face of Alaska Airlines
Apr 1, 2014, 3:25 pm
#4625
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Late evening here in London.
Let's guess green and white.
Fast backwards nearly 40 years (oh my !) to a student apartment in Edinburgh, with me and my friends at about 1 am early one Saturday morning. On the record player (remember those ?) was The Car Over The Lake Album, by The Ozark Mountain Daredevils http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Car...the_Lake_Album . One of the girls says "what is Ozark ?". I reply "It's an airline in America. DC9s and Fairchild 227s". The aircraft types were lost on them, but there were mumbles of "ok, ok ...... trust WHBM to know that" that followed. I wonder if their geographical knowledge was ever adequately updated. Incidentally, memo to successive generations to WHBM, such aviation knowledge does, alas, not impress said girls unduly .......
Certainly 100% of the first one ever, JFK to Heathrow. It finally got away from New York at about 2 am after an aircraft change, good thing they had another one standing by. Turned up at Heathrow hours late, most of the waiting press had left, only the BBC crew stayed on (doubtless on overtime) and so it featured on the evening TV news. The big fan cases on the JT9D engines tended to "ovalise" due to inadequate strength, and the fan blades would contact the seals on the sides. It came to light in final testing (should have done so earlier) but Boeing pushed on regardless. P&W did finally get to grips with it and fix it, but it really impacted early operations.
OK, these are mostly Californians. So I'll guess water 
(Miniliq throws up his hands in horror !)
7. Sticking with Ozark for a moment, what two colors were the table linens and the napkins used in Ozark’s First Class service during the early seventies?
Fast backwards nearly 40 years (oh my !) to a student apartment in Edinburgh, with me and my friends at about 1 am early one Saturday morning. On the record player (remember those ?) was The Car Over The Lake Album, by The Ozark Mountain Daredevils http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Car...the_Lake_Album . One of the girls says "what is Ozark ?". I reply "It's an airline in America. DC9s and Fairchild 227s". The aircraft types were lost on them, but there were mumbles of "ok, ok ...... trust WHBM to know that" that followed. I wonder if their geographical knowledge was ever adequately updated. Incidentally, memo to successive generations to WHBM, such aviation knowledge does, alas, not impress said girls unduly .......
8. The early versions of the Pratt & Whitney JT9D engines that powered the new 747 were fraught with teething problems. What percentage of Pan Am’s 747 flights were delayed during their first three months of service in 1970? What was the primary cause of these delays?
23. What was the number one requested drink aboard United’s Royal Hawaiian DC-8 flights to Honolulu in 1969? (Hint: It wasn’t the Mai Tai)
(Miniliq throws up his hands in horror !)
Last edited by WHBM; Apr 1, 2014 at 3:31 pm
Apr 1, 2014, 3:41 pm
#4626
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Or it may have been Halston leather.....but I don't think he was a cow.
Wine, champagne and massively emotional, ego-driven route expansion with little in the way of forethought may also have been involved as well following the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978.
Last edited by jlemon; Apr 1, 2014 at 3:49 pm Reason: Additional musings....anybody have Al Kahn's phone number?
Apr 1, 2014, 9:19 pm
#4627
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9. What was the seat pitch on Delta’s original Convair 880s when they were delivered fresh from the factory in 1960?
TWA's 880s had 38 inch pitch, so I'll guess DL's had the same pitch.
This qualifies as a trick question. Allow me to quote here from Jon Proctor's book on the Convair 880/990, published as part of the short-lived Great Airliners Series:
"Delta was the only airline to utilize Convair's suggestion for an all-First Class configuration, with 12 forward lounge seats and 72 in the main cabin. This arrangement lasted until December 5th, 1961 when dual-class service began with the introduction of 32 coach seats."
I never could find any information as to the coach seating pitch, but back in those days it was always quite generous so you are probably correct as to the 38" pitch.
I've met Jon Proctor on a number of occasions. He is indeed a wealth of fascinating airline information.
Apr 1, 2014, 9:29 pm
#4628
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3. Name all of the airlines that located to Denver Stapleton’s new D Concourse when it opened in 1973.
Wild guess time.....
Braniff
Eastern (interchange flights only with Braniff operating from Memphis)
Frontier
North Central
Ozark
Texas International
TWA
A very good guess, Mr. Lemon! I didn't figure anybody would have a clue on this one!
When I was a teenager, I used to ride my bike 13 miles out to Stapleton, chain it up, then go and roam the concourses. I knew the D Concourse well, especially because it was home to most all of the airlines I'd not yet flown, the one exception being Frontier.
As to Concourse D, the primary tenant was Frontier with the rest of the gates being utilized by North Central, Ozark and Texas International. Later 1970s tenants included Southern and Hughes Airwest.
TWA was over on the C Concourse (with WA and CO) and Braniff/Eastern was located over on the B, with UA.
Apr 1, 2014, 9:56 pm
#4629
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7. Sticking with Ozark for a moment, what two colors were the table linens and the napkins used in Ozark’s First Class service during the early seventies?
Let's guess green and white.
An excellent guess. Certainly green would have to have been one of the colors. My source for this one was a trip report written by Airliners International Magazine editor David P. Morgan. He flew Ozark's short lived First Class service from Milwaukee down to Dallas (via St. Louis) and expressed dismay at the yellow table cloth and green napkins.
Incidentally, memo to successive generations to WHBM, such aviation knowledge does, alas, not impress said girls unduly .......
I'm still looking for a girl that is impressed by such things!
8. The early versions of the Pratt & Whitney JT9D engines that powered the new 747 were fraught with teething problems. What percentage of Pan Am’s 747 flights were delayed during their first three months of service in 1970? What was the primary cause of these delays?
Certainly 100% of the first one ever, JFK to Heathrow. It finally got away from New York at about 2 am after an aircraft change, good thing they had another one standing by. Turned up at Heathrow hours late, most of the waiting press had left, only the BBC crew stayed on (doubtless on overtime) and so it featured on the evening TV news. The big fan cases on the JT9D engines tended to "ovalise" due to inadequate strength, and the fan blades would contact the seals on the sides. It came to light in final testing (should have done so earlier) but Boeing pushed on regardless. P&W did finally get to grips with it and fix it, but it really impacted early operations.
And now we get into the April Fool's Day portion of these questions! I have absolutely no idea what the exact percentage of delayed flights was, and could hardly have expected any else here (with the exception of our esteemed WHBM!) to have. That said, I do remember reading somewhere that the number of delayed flights early on was substantial, over 10% due to the engine problem alone. Thanks to WHBM for the detail on that first flight. I remember reading about it in the paper a day or two later. Not a great start, but a very nice finish thus far for the Queen of the Skies...
23. What was the number one requested drink aboard United’s Royal Hawaiian DC-8 flights to Honolulu in 1969? (Hint: It wasn’t the Mai Tai)
OK, these are mostly Californians. So I'll guess water
(Miniliq throws up his hands in horror !)Sounds good to me! And more to the point, this was very likely true. Water was free, Mai Tais were $1.00. (With inflation, about $5.50 in today's money) I'm not sure if this was the case in 1969, but United eventually started catering it's Royal Hawaiian Service flights with food by Trader Vic's. This included the Mai Tais which were made with Trader Vic's Mai Tai mix. I have fond memories of those Mai Tais, having downed quite a few of them during a one year period when I flew 23 round trips to Hawaii - all of them in First Class.
Apr 1, 2014, 10:04 pm
#4630
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21. When Braniff switched to all leather seats on its 727 fleet, what breed of cow was the leather said to have come from?
Well, it just may have been rich Corinthian leather from a poor Argentinian cow that the airline actually stated came from Chile.....
Or it may have been Halston leather.....but I don't think he was a cow.
It had to have been Texas Longhorn!
Apr 1, 2014, 10:13 pm
#4631
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Alright then, as to the rest of these questions...
HAPPY APRIL FOOL'S DAY!
If I didn't make them up on the spot, I expected them to be so obscure that hardly anyone could be expected to know the answer. Hats off to WHBM, jlemon and JoeDTW for their excellent answers! The remaining two questions that do have some basis in reality are:
10. Name the famous regional brand of peanuts catered on Texas International and Continental flights out of Albuquerque during the early 1970s.
18. Can you name the locations of United’s U.S. based flight kitchens prior to 1990? (Hint: There were over a dozen of them)
So - if any of you would like to have a go at those, please do! And - if you'll give me another day or two I'll have another batch of questions to submit for your perusal.
HAPPY APRIL FOOL'S DAY!
If I didn't make them up on the spot, I expected them to be so obscure that hardly anyone could be expected to know the answer. Hats off to WHBM, jlemon and JoeDTW for their excellent answers! The remaining two questions that do have some basis in reality are:
10. Name the famous regional brand of peanuts catered on Texas International and Continental flights out of Albuquerque during the early 1970s.
18. Can you name the locations of United’s U.S. based flight kitchens prior to 1990? (Hint: There were over a dozen of them)
So - if any of you would like to have a go at those, please do! And - if you'll give me another day or two I'll have another batch of questions to submit for your perusal.
Apr 2, 2014, 4:43 am
#4632
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
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I'm still looking for a girl that is impressed by such things!
"Ah, dear, nice to see you home. I've made us some great steaks [smiles], got everything clean and tidy [smiles again], I've even cleaned out your study [slight uh-oh], got all those books of yours straightened [more than slight uh-oh], and, do you know, some of those plane timetables were way out of date so I've junked all the expired ones you'll be pleased to know ........." [speechless].
Apr 2, 2014, 6:14 am
#4633
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... 8. The early versions of the Pratt & Whitney JT9D engines that powered the new 747 were fraught with teething problems. What percentage of Pan Am’s 747 flights were delayed during their first three months of service in 1970? What was the primary cause of these delays?
... Certainly 100% of the first one ever, JFK to Heathrow. It finally got away from New York at about 2 am after an aircraft change, good thing they had another one standing by. Turned up at Heathrow hours late, most of the waiting press had left, only the BBC crew stayed on (doubtless on overtime) and so it featured on the evening TV news. The big fan cases on the JT9D engines tended to "ovalise" due to inadequate strength, and the fan blades would contact the seals on the sides. It came to light in final testing (should have done so earlier) but Boeing pushed on regardless. P&W did finally get to grips with it and fix it, but it really impacted early operations. ...
- 1) Under powered ,delivered not enough thrust for the ever increasing MTOW of the 747, to get maximum thrust HP turbine section was operated at limits.
- 2) Very sensitive for tail and X-wind, especially during starting, causing hot starts or stalls.
- 3) Ovalisation of the engine casing during T/O, causing blade rubbing and loss of efficiency.
- 4) In general very stall sensitive during power transitions, don't put the power levers suddenly to idle.
- 5) Damaged HP turbines, caused by failing rivets in blade-retaining plates in early engines.
Remedies :
- 1) Product development, slowly increased thrust from 43.500 lbs, first via addition of water injection in the dash -3A engine. Then further increase possible via improved HP turbine blades in dash 7, 7W, 7A, 7AW, 7F and finally maximum 50.000 lbs in dash 7J with single cristal HP turbine blades with improved cooling. Two improved variants (with different type certificate) with more thrust were developed to counteract the GE and RR engines offered from 1975. First the -70 and -7Q were developed, the final (at last matured) engine was the dash -7R4 series.
- 2) Small improvements made starting not so demanding, but still the engine was/is very tricky to start in tail wind conditions. (valid for all dash -7 versions up to -7J.)
- 3) Was remedied by a thrust yoke, to spread the forces applied between the pylon and engine better.
- 4) Addition of ARS (automatic recovery system) in fact extra (3.5) bleed valves dumping air, when an impending stall condition was sensed. During reverse RABS (reverse actuated bleed system) was built in to release air from the engine in case of impending stall.
- 5) Improved rivets installed.
Sources : Jet and Turbine Aero Engines by Bill Gunston and own experience on 747-200/ JT9D-7(W) aircraft from 1978 till 1991.
and a couple posts later- 2) Very sensitive for tail and X-wind, especially during starting, causing hot starts or stalls.
- 3) Ovalisation of the engine casing during T/O, causing blade rubbing and loss of efficiency.
- 4) In general very stall sensitive during power transitions, don't put the power levers suddenly to idle.
- 5) Damaged HP turbines, caused by failing rivets in blade-retaining plates in early engines.
Remedies :
- 1) Product development, slowly increased thrust from 43.500 lbs, first via addition of water injection in the dash -3A engine. Then further increase possible via improved HP turbine blades in dash 7, 7W, 7A, 7AW, 7F and finally maximum 50.000 lbs in dash 7J with single cristal HP turbine blades with improved cooling. Two improved variants (with different type certificate) with more thrust were developed to counteract the GE and RR engines offered from 1975. First the -70 and -7Q were developed, the final (at last matured) engine was the dash -7R4 series.
- 2) Small improvements made starting not so demanding, but still the engine was/is very tricky to start in tail wind conditions. (valid for all dash -7 versions up to -7J.)
- 3) Was remedied by a thrust yoke, to spread the forces applied between the pylon and engine better.
- 4) Addition of ARS (automatic recovery system) in fact extra (3.5) bleed valves dumping air, when an impending stall condition was sensed. During reverse RABS (reverse actuated bleed system) was built in to release air from the engine in case of impending stall.
- 5) Improved rivets installed.
Sources : Jet and Turbine Aero Engines by Bill Gunston and own experience on 747-200/ JT9D-7(W) aircraft from 1978 till 1991.
I worked for a guy (now retired) who had a framed copy of a memo from 1970. It was from the president of NWA to the president of PW, highly sarcastic, and complained about the fact that stage 1 HPT blades were lasting only 500 hours.
Apr 2, 2014, 6:45 am
#4634
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
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There's still a longstanding belief at BA that the recovery of the 747-200 where all four engines failed in an Indonesian volcanic cloud, would not have been achieveable had it been one of the P&W-engine aircraft, which at the time were the bulk of the BA 747 fleet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9
Apr 3, 2014, 1:29 am
#4635
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It's been a lonnnnng night here in the Great White North, but now that it's drawing to a close I wanted to drop these questions off before the morning as it'll be quite a spell before I have a chance to get back on the net tomorrow.
As always, even though many of you are more than capable of answering all of these questions in one fell swoop, please limit your responses to just two or three questions so that others might also have a chance to participate!
1. What was the westernmost destination served by American Airlines’ Electras? A N S W E R E D
2. When Delta introduced its new Convair 880s in 1960, what was its name for the airplane? A N S W E R E D
3. What was the first airline to operate scheduled service with both the 707 and the DC-8? A N S W E R E D
4. What U.S. airline operated the first coast to coast nonstop flight? Can you identify the route and the type of aircraft used? A pat on the back to those who can also identify the year this service commenced. A N S W E R E D
5. What was the last airline to take delivery of the Vickers Viscount? A N S W E R E D
6. Only one U.S. airline ever operated the Lockheed Electra in scheduled coast to coast service. Please identify the airline and the route. A N S W E R E D
7. What was the first non-U.S. airline to order and operate a Boeing commercial jetliner? A N S W E R E D
8. These days nonstop flights between New York and Delhi are commonplace. Back in the summer of 1973 however, one of Air India’s 747 flights made five stops enroute. Can you identify the stops? . A N S W E R E D
The following four questions are based upon schedules published in the summer of 1968
9. Only four airports in Utah were served with aircraft that sat more than 40 passengers. Can you identify each airport, the airline(s) that served it and the aircraft they served that airport with? ......... A N S W E R E D
10. Homer, Alaska was served by only one airline using only one type of aircraft (over 40 seats) from four different towns in Alaska. Can you identify the airline, the aircraft and the four Alaskan towns? A N S W E R E D
11. Only one airline provided jet service to Lincoln, Nebraska. Can you identify the airline, the aircraft and the two cities the jet flew to from Lincoln? A N S W E R E D
12. Ottawa, Canada was served by one international flight. Please identify the route, the airline and the equipment. A N S W E R E D
13. It’s spring of 1994 and the days of multiple nonstops between New York JFK and Nassau with BOAC, Northeast and Pan Am are long gone. Now you need to fly nonstop from Nassau up to New York’s JFK and only one airline offers a single daily nonstop. Please identify the airline and the aircraft operated on this route.
14. Sticking with the spring of 1994, please identify the three airlines that enjoyed fifth freedom rights on the New York to Montreal route.
15. Which airline operated the first scheduled dual class aircraft flight in the U.S.? What year did it begin and what type of aircraft was used?
16. It’s the spring of 1983 and you want to fly from Hartford, Connecticut to Buffalo, New York. Normally you’d call US Air but a new airline is offering nonstop jet service on this route. Please identify the airline and the aircraft used.
17. In the late 1990s, this airline operated the only nonstop service between Chicago’s Midway Airport and Myrtle Beach, North Carolina with a single daily flight. Please identify the airline and the aircraft used.
18. Fast forward seven years and now another airline is serving the Chicago to Myrtle Beach market with nonstop jet flights four days a week out of the nearby Gary, Indiana airport. Please identify the airline and the aircraft used.
19. In the early 2000s, this NFL football team played in a stadium sponsored by one airline while its official airline sponsor was yet another airline. Identify the team, the stadium and the team’s official airline sponsor. A N S W E R E D
20. What was the first jet transport designed specifically around a turbofan engine? A N S W E R E D
As always, even though many of you are more than capable of answering all of these questions in one fell swoop, please limit your responses to just two or three questions so that others might also have a chance to participate!
1. What was the westernmost destination served by American Airlines’ Electras? A N S W E R E D
2. When Delta introduced its new Convair 880s in 1960, what was its name for the airplane? A N S W E R E D
3. What was the first airline to operate scheduled service with both the 707 and the DC-8? A N S W E R E D
4. What U.S. airline operated the first coast to coast nonstop flight? Can you identify the route and the type of aircraft used? A pat on the back to those who can also identify the year this service commenced. A N S W E R E D
5. What was the last airline to take delivery of the Vickers Viscount? A N S W E R E D
6. Only one U.S. airline ever operated the Lockheed Electra in scheduled coast to coast service. Please identify the airline and the route. A N S W E R E D
7. What was the first non-U.S. airline to order and operate a Boeing commercial jetliner? A N S W E R E D
8. These days nonstop flights between New York and Delhi are commonplace. Back in the summer of 1973 however, one of Air India’s 747 flights made five stops enroute. Can you identify the stops? . A N S W E R E D
The following four questions are based upon schedules published in the summer of 1968
9. Only four airports in Utah were served with aircraft that sat more than 40 passengers. Can you identify each airport, the airline(s) that served it and the aircraft they served that airport with? ......... A N S W E R E D
10. Homer, Alaska was served by only one airline using only one type of aircraft (over 40 seats) from four different towns in Alaska. Can you identify the airline, the aircraft and the four Alaskan towns? A N S W E R E D
11. Only one airline provided jet service to Lincoln, Nebraska. Can you identify the airline, the aircraft and the two cities the jet flew to from Lincoln? A N S W E R E D
12. Ottawa, Canada was served by one international flight. Please identify the route, the airline and the equipment. A N S W E R E D
13. It’s spring of 1994 and the days of multiple nonstops between New York JFK and Nassau with BOAC, Northeast and Pan Am are long gone. Now you need to fly nonstop from Nassau up to New York’s JFK and only one airline offers a single daily nonstop. Please identify the airline and the aircraft operated on this route.
14. Sticking with the spring of 1994, please identify the three airlines that enjoyed fifth freedom rights on the New York to Montreal route.
15. Which airline operated the first scheduled dual class aircraft flight in the U.S.? What year did it begin and what type of aircraft was used?
16. It’s the spring of 1983 and you want to fly from Hartford, Connecticut to Buffalo, New York. Normally you’d call US Air but a new airline is offering nonstop jet service on this route. Please identify the airline and the aircraft used.
17. In the late 1990s, this airline operated the only nonstop service between Chicago’s Midway Airport and Myrtle Beach, North Carolina with a single daily flight. Please identify the airline and the aircraft used.
18. Fast forward seven years and now another airline is serving the Chicago to Myrtle Beach market with nonstop jet flights four days a week out of the nearby Gary, Indiana airport. Please identify the airline and the aircraft used.
19. In the early 2000s, this NFL football team played in a stadium sponsored by one airline while its official airline sponsor was yet another airline. Identify the team, the stadium and the team’s official airline sponsor. A N S W E R E D
20. What was the first jet transport designed specifically around a turbofan engine? A N S W E R E D
Last edited by Seat 2A; Apr 4, 2014 at 2:29 pm