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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Apr 4, 2014, 6:05 am
  #4651  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
... I was unaware that both NA & PA took delivery of their DC-8s on the same day ...
here's DC-8 factory delivery info, showing NA taking delivery of a -21 and PA receiving a -32 on 7 Feb 1960
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 7:38 am
  #4652  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Well actually ......... it has

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26856285

We get this once every few years, high level winds from the south bring airborne sand from the Sahara north across Europe. Unfortunately this time it's coincided with a change in the government department responsible for advising about it, who certainly started off on April 1 with a bang - press releases in all directions, and on a pollution scale from 1 to 10 immediately scored it a 10, which seems ludicrous - it's not even pollution. Dubai, with sand particles blowing in from the Saudi desert, has it far more noticeable.

The WHBMobile is headed for the car wash later today.
It is also not unheard of for Saharan dust to make it all the way across the Atlantic to the Caribbean. Several years ago, we were connecting through San Juan en route from Antigua back to Louisiana. Although technically a partly cloudy day, visibility was terrible on the flight from Antigua to SJU. The San Juan newspaper told the tale: Saharan dust was responsible for the considerable haze and because of it an air pollution advisory had been issued for all of Puerto Rico.
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 7:46 am
  #4653  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
Cedar City -- Bonanza, Fairchild F-27
Moab -- Frontier, Convair 580 (the ex-Central Convair 600s may still have been flying at this time as well)
Vernal -- Frontier, Convair 580 and/or 600
Salt Lake City -- Bonanza (F-27, DC-9); Frontier (Convair, 727); United (720, 727, 737, DC-8); Western (720, 737, Electra)
I don't think the ex-Central CV-600s ever got any further west than DEN and the Front Range when they were operated by Frontier......but I believe I do recall Frontier operating the CV-580 into little ole Vernal in the back of beyond in the Beehive State. And I know FL operated the 580 into Moab as well when there was a uranium mining boom in that area near Arches and Canyonlands national parks back in the day.
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 9:37 am
  #4654  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A

The following question is based upon schedules published in the summer of 1968

11. Only one airline provided jet service to Lincoln, Nebraska. Can you identify the airline, the aircraft and the two cities the jet flew to from Lincoln?
11. Sounds like the original Frontier Airlnes (FL) with B727-100 "Arrow Jet" service nonstop to Denver and Kansas City with direct service to St. Louis via a stop at MKC.
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 10:11 am
  #4655  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A

1. What was the westernmost destination served by American Airlines’ Electras?
1. This is an excellent question! I'll guess the destination was El Paso (ELP).

And here are two followup bonus questions:

What was the westernmost destination served by American Airlines with the BAC One-Eleven series 400? ANSWERED

What was the westernmost destination served by American Airlines with the Fokker F100? ANSWERED

Last edited by jlemon; Apr 4, 2014 at 2:00 pm Reason: Answer update.....
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 10:40 am
  #4656  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
4. What U.S. airline operated the first coast to coast nonstop flight? Can you identify the route and the type of aircraft used? A pat on the back to those who can also identify the year this service commenced.

7. What was the first non-U.S. airline to order and operate a Boeing commercial jetliner?

12. Ottawa, Canada was served by one international flight. Please identify the route, the airline and the equipment.

13. It’s spring of 1994 and the days of multiple nonstops between New York JFK and Nassau with BOAC, Northeast and Pan Am are long gone. Now you need to fly nonstop from Nassau up to New York’s JFK and only one airline offers a single daily nonstop. Please identify the airline and the aircraft operated on this route.
4. TWA, Lockheed 1049 Constellation (I don't know which sub variant of the 1049 was used), in 1953. TWA started their nonstop before AA DC-7s entered service.

7. QANTAS, 707-138 in July, 1959

12. I'll guess Eastern to Baltimore, with 727-25s

13. I'll guess AA.
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 10:53 am
  #4657  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
12. Ottawa, Canada was served by one international flight. Please identify the route, the airline and the equipment.
Any specific range of dates? Back in mid '90s, there was CP YOW-LHR with 763 equipment.

14. Sticking with the spring of 1994, please identify the three airlines that enjoyed fifth freedom rights on the New York to Montreal route.
I seem to remember AR and RG doing this route a few years earlier. Note sure if that extended to spring 1994.
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 1:11 pm
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12. Ottawa, Canada was served by one international flight. Please identify the route, the airline and the equipment.

Any specific range of dates? Back in mid '90s, there was CP YOW-LHR with 763 equipment
I believe the date is 1968, and it's a reference to the Eastern once daily flight to Syracuse NY and points south that ended up in Baltimore. Another flight went from Ottawa through Montreal (and hence was not an international nonstop from Ottawa) also to Baltimore.

The CP flight of the 1990s was the first scheduled intercontinental flight from Ottawa, but it was just a change of status for the Wardair charters which had long run from Ottawa to London UK in the summer, the change was done when CP took over Wardair.
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 1:17 pm
  #4659  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
... 14. Sticking with the spring of 1994, please identify the three airlines that enjoyed fifth freedom rights on the New York to Montreal route. ...
Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach
... I seem to remember AR and RG doing this route a few years earlier. Note sure if that extended to spring 1994.
if I'm not mistaken, CSA (Czech) and LOT (Polish) also had service between JFK and Montreal, but I can't say for sure whether they were still in the market in 1994 ... I also recall Aeroflot and El Al, and I believe we had a recent question where Royal Air Maroc was part of the answer

Originally Posted by Seat 2A
... 12. Ottawa, Canada was served by one international flight. Please identify the route, the airline and the equipment. ...
Originally Posted by JoeDTW
... 12. I'll guess Eastern to Baltimore, with 727-25s. ...
I seem to recall this flight actually operated via SYR
WHBM seems to recall that as well ... no great surprise ;-)

Last edited by jrl767; Apr 4, 2014 at 1:19 pm Reason: timing ...
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 1:17 pm
  #4660  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
here's DC-8 factory delivery info, showing NA taking delivery of a -21 and PA receiving a -32 on 7 Feb 1960
Thanks for the link, J. Fred Cox is a wonderful resource, isn't he?
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 1:28 pm
  #4661  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
And here are two followup bonus questions:

What was the westernmost destination served by American Airlines with the BAC One-Eleven series 400?

What was the westernmost destination served by American Airlines with the Fokker F100?
I don't think the AA One-Elevens got beyond Dallas Love Field in scheduled operation. The American schedules never admitted they had the One-Eleven in the fleet; all the ones I've seen called it the "400 Jet", although I don't think the OAG was fooled.

Regarding the F100, I seem to recall that AA had a shot around the year 2000 with using them, with limited 56 First Class seats to get round a legal limitation, from Dallas Love Field to LAX and SFO.

A Bonus Bonus question, then, about American Airlines. How many types of aircraft have they bought which were hopeless, and which they started to sell off within, say. seven years of the last one being delivered new, well before their depreciation was up. I think they must hold an unenviable record for how often this has happened to them.
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 1:35 pm
  #4662  
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Originally Posted by jlemon

1. What was the westernmost destination served by American Airlines’ Electras?

This is an excellent question! I'll guess the destination was El Paso (ELP).

That is an excellent guess - so excellent that it is in fact correct!

11. Only one airline provided jet service to Lincoln, Nebraska. Can you identify the airline, the aircraft and the two cities the jet flow to from Lincoln?

Sounds like the original Frontier Airlines (FL) with B727-100 "Arrow Jet" service nonstop to Denver and Kansas City with direct service to St. Louis via a stop at MKC.

Sounds like you know your schedules, Mr. L. Correct!

Last edited by Seat 2A; Apr 4, 2014 at 1:41 pm
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 1:49 pm
  #4663  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
I don't think the AA One-Elevens got beyond Dallas Love Field in scheduled operation. The American schedules never admitted they had the One-Eleven in the fleet; all the ones I've seen called it the "400 Jet", although I don't think the OAG was fooled ...
I'm sure I remember seeing "400 Astrojet" or some similar designator in AA timetables circa 1968 ... here's one page of Dec 67 from timetableimages

Originally Posted by WHBM
A Bonus Bonus question, then, about American Airlines. How many types of aircraft have they bought which were hopeless, and which they started to sell off within, say. seven years of the last one being delivered new, well before their depreciation was up. I think they must hold an unenviable record for how often this has happened to them.
would I be correct in thinking you made a similar observation in the discussion surrounding the answers to a question a couple weeks ago about how many sub-120-seat jet models had been in the AA fleet? ...

as far as models AA actually bought, the Convair 990, the BAC 1-11-400, and the Fokker F-100 come to mind right away; as far as models they inherited and disposed of rather quickly, we find the BAe 146s and 737-200s from AirCal, the MD-87s from Reno Air, and the 757s and 767s from TWA (and there are probably others)

Last edited by jrl767; Apr 4, 2014 at 2:00 pm
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 1:56 pm
  #4664  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
I don't think the AA One-Elevens got beyond Dallas Love Field in scheduled operation. The American schedules never admitted they had the One-Eleven in the fleet; all the ones I've seen called it the "400 Jet", although I don't think the OAG was fooled.

Regarding the F100, I seem to recall that AA had a shot around the year 2000 with using them, with limited 56 First Class seats to get round a legal limitation, from Dallas Love Field to LAX and SFO.
Indeed, BAC One-Eleven service in AA system timetables (the old style linear east and westbound scheds in the main timetable section, not the quick reference scheds) from the late 60's are simply listed as "400 JET" flights.

Besides Dallas Love (DAL), American also operated the BAC One-Eleven series 400 into Oklahoma City (OKC) which I think is just about as far west in the U.S. as Love Field is.

I'm not sure if American operated the Fokker 100 between DAL and SFO.....but they sure did between DAL and LAX in 56 seat configuration in order to comply with the Wright Amendment.

And I do not think that AA originally planned on operating the Fokker twin jet into Los Angeles International. However, when Legend Airlines initiated DAL-LAX nonstop service with DC-9-30s configured with 56 business class style seats, AA management apparently decided to mount a counterattack and several F100s were converted from first and coach configuration to an all business class layout with 56 seats. AA also flew DAL-ORD and DAL-LGA with these all biz class Fokker 100s. In fact, back in the early 90's, it was possible to board an AA F100 at LAX and fly direct in biz class twice a day to New York LaGuardia via the stop at Love Field. Legend, of course, struggled financially and did not last very long. And when Legend ceased operations for good, AA then discontinued the all biz class F100 service from Dallas Love.

Last edited by jlemon; Apr 4, 2014 at 2:18 pm Reason: additional info.....
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Old Apr 4, 2014, 2:04 pm
  #4665  
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Originally Posted by JoeDTW

4. What U.S. airline operated the first coast to coast nonstop flight? Can you identify the route and the type of aircraft used? A pat on the back to those who can also identify the year this service commenced.

TWA, Lockheed 1049 Constellation (I don't know which sub variant of the 1049 was used), in 1953. TWA started their nonstop before AA DC-7s entered service.

Correct! The first service commenced on October 19, 1953 from Los Angeles to New York-Idlewild. The flight was scheduled for seven hours and 55 minutes. Westbound flights would make a 15 minute stop in Chicago for a crew change only. No local traffic into or out of Chicago was allowed.

7. What was the first non-U.S. airline to order and operate a Boeing commercial jetliner?

QANTAS, 707-138 in July, 1959

That's roight, Mite! Good on ya! The first Qantas 707-138 entered service between Sydney and San Francisco (with all the usual stops of the day) on July 29th, 1959.

12. Ottawa, Canada was served by one international flight. Please identify the route, the airline and the equipment.

I'll guess Eastern to Baltimore, with 727-25s

You've got the airline and the aircraft right, however the first point of entry into the U.S. was a different city. Credit jrl767 with that part, the city being Syracuse. Additionally, Baltimore was not one of the down line destinations of this flight - at least not in the schedules that I have. From Syracuse, the flight continued on to DCA, MIA and finally NAS.

13. It’s spring of 1994 and the days of multiple nonstops between New York JFK and Nassau with BOAC, Northeast and Pan Am are long gone. Now you need to fly nonstop from Nassau up to New York’s JFK and only one airline offers a single daily nonstop. Please identify the airline and the aircraft operated on this route.

I'll guess AA.

An excellent guess that may well have been correct at a different time. However, in the spring of 1994, it was a different airline. Please, guess again!

Last edited by Seat 2A; Apr 4, 2014 at 2:22 pm
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