WHBM

These internal US sectors onwards from JFK were being operated for El Al by North American Airlines, a small charter operation which El Al had some financial involvement with at the time, using US-registered 757s and MD80s, although this was often not apparent from the published schedules, which continued to say 747 from the transatlantic segment. These add-on flights to the regular 747 TLV-JFK did indeed seem to change from month to month, even to the extent of which airports were served. North American was a somewhat shadowy operation at the time, they also operated charters in Europe with their 757s, some for the US military from Germany, and some odd substitute flights, what we term "subcharters" over here, for other airlines in need. So if say Aer Lingus had an aircraft broken down and no spare in the peak summer season, North American's 757 would turn up for a day or two. I saw them turn up in Cork, Ireland one evening some years ago, thought it was a most unusual transatlantic charter into there, but then found it was covering an Aer Lingus A320 holiday flight from Spain, operating about 8 hours late.

These odd LHR-JFK flights had a long history, they went back to when BA, and in fact predecessor BOAC, operated to the Middle East and beyond, taking passengers onward between say Dubai and Singapore, which Kuwait Airways did not serve, but when they started going to New York it was done as an extension of their London flights, which the reciprocal authority allowed. They had neither commercial demand not capable aircraft at the time to do the nonstop. Kuwait Airways is the last to still be doing this, their 777s do KWI-LHR-JFK a few times a week. They are not generally marketed but they have their own distribution channels through favoured travel agencies, and the volumes are too low to trouble BA etc. This was true of El Al and Air India as well when they were on the route. Kuwait Airways find it difficult to market in the UK as they are a wholly "dry" airline, not only is no alcohol served but you can't even take duty free purchases of it on board.

jlemon

Well, I wondered about that....other schedules over the years did note the fact that domestic legs in the U.S. were actually flown by North American with B757-200 and MD-80 equipment on behalf of El Al.

Back around 2008, I believe North American was still operating scheduled service under their own name from JFK and BWI to Nigeria and Ghana and also from JFK to Guyana. I also think they operated scheduled service earlier than 2008 to the Caribbean and Hawaii. It appears a decision was then made to cease sched pax ops and concentrate on charters and other business.

North American is still around. Not too long ago I saw two of their B767-300ER aircraft parked adjacent to one of the American terminals at DFW.

jlemon

And speaking of American, here's a bonus quiz item....

As we have previously discussed, American Eagle came into being back in 1984 when Metroflight Airlines began turboprop operations from DFW via a code sharing agreement with AA. These initial American Eagle flights were operated with Convair 580 equipment that had been previously flown by Frontier Airlines (FL).

However, prior to the inception of American Eagle, AA created a feeder operation with twin engine piston powered aircraft which operated during late 1970s. So, with this in mind, here are several questions:

1) What was the name of this feeder operation?

2) What type of aircraft did it operate?

3) What geographical area did it operate in?

4) Why was it created?

WHBM

I beleve it was around 5 flights a day, just operated in the middle of the day .....

miniliq

Maybe I'm way off base, but was it Command Airways? -- operating in an area north of New York (Poughkeepsie, Albany, White Plains) with the purpose of feeding Kennedy and LaGuardia. Started out with Twin Otters, then added Shorts 330s, prior to being taken over by American.

jlemon

I'll go ahead and answer these remaining quiz items now....

13. The two airlines were LADECO (UC) operating a B727-100 and Aero Caribe (QA) operating a DC-9-30. The latter carrier operated its flights with Mexicana (MX) flight numbers via a code sharing arrangement. Here are the scheds....

UC 450: Santiago (SCL) - Iquique (IQQ) - Bogota (BOG) - Cancun (CUN) - Havana (HAV)
Op: Mondays only
Equip: 727

MX* 7902 (QA): Oaxaca (OAX) - Tuxtla Gutierrez (TGZ) - Villahermosa (VSA) - Merida (MID) - Cancun (CUN) - Havana (HAV)
Op: Thursdays and Sundays only
Equip: D9S

LADECO was a Chilean airline, of course. And there was one other airline flying between HAV and CUN at this time: Cubana de Aviacion (CU) operating Yakovlev Yak-42 jet equipment with three flights per week.

16. American Airlines operating an MD-80. Here's the sched.....

AA 1351: EWR-DFW-SLC-JAC
Op: Daily
Equip: M80

Delta was also operating one stop service from Los Angeles to Jackson Hole with B737-300 on a daily basis at this time with a LAX-SLC-JAC routing thus providing this beautiful destination near Grand Teton and Yellowstone (which is the only airport in the U.S. with jet service to be located inside of a National Park) with inbound flights from coast to coast.

17. The two airlines were British Airways operating a B747-200 and British West Indian Airways (BWIA) flying L-1011-500 and MD-80 equipment. Here are the scheds.....

BA 255: LGW-ANU-BGI
Op: Wednesdays only
Equip: 747

BW 415: KIN-ANU-BGI-POS
Op: Mondays, Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays only
Equip: M80

BW 415: KIN-SXM-ANU-BGI-POS
Op: Wednesdays and Saturdays only
Equip: M80

BW 601: YYZ-ANU-BGI-POS
Op: Sundays only
Equip: M80

BW 931: LHR-ANU-BGI-TAB-POS
Op: Wednesdays only
Equip: L15

BW 985: ZRH-ANU-BGI-POS
Op: Sundays only
Equip: L15

I'll let the quiz item I posted earlier today concerning American feeder service in the late 70s operated with piston powered aircraft sit out there for awhile.....

jlemon

Well, that's a great guess! However, it is incorrect! Please note we are looking for piston engine aircraft here. And here's a hint: the equipment type in question had more seats than a Twin Otter or a Short 330.

jlemon

This American Airlines subsidiary was specifically set up to provide service into one airport. It had its own name which reflected the fact that it was an AA service. The schedule I was able to view lists five flights a day to one destination and four flights a day to another destination from this particular airport. According to this schedule, both routes had flights from the morning into the evening hours. There may have been other destinations served as well but I do know of at least three. At least three piston engine aircraft were flown and there may have been as many as five. This feeder operation initiated their first service in the mid 70's and was still around during the early 80's.

There's a small display commemorating this service at the American Airlines C.R. Smith aviation museum located near DFW.

And we are still looking for the answers to the above four questions here.....

WHBM

I believe the operation in question here is American Inter-Island, which ran Convair 440 piston aircraft between St Croix and St Thomas in the Virgin Islands from 1977 to 1980. It’s described in an airline survey of the time here

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%201408.html

Trans Caribbean Airways started Boeing 727 services from New York to St Thomas in the late 1960s, using the short, 4,650 foot long runway there. In December 1970 one of their 727-200s overran this runway at speed and was destroyed by fire in rough ground beyond. Almost all escaped before this, but two passengers were killed. The aftermath was part of TCA getting taken over by American Airlines just three months later.

In April 1976 an American 727 now operating the same flight also overran the runway at speed in a more serious accident, it also broke through the perimeter, demolished a gas station and a rum storage bond, both unwisely alongside the runway, and there was a large conflagration. 34 of the 88 passengers on board were killed. An aviation industry engineer from the UK was a passenger who escaped, and subsequently wrote an article in “Flight” magazine about experiencing such an incident, which I recall reading at the time.

After this American stopped jet services to St Thomas and set up an operation called American Inter-Island. They bought four Convair 440s, which had initially belonged to Iberia, from Belgian charter carrier Delta Air Transport, gave them tail numbers N44825/6/8/9, painted them in the American livery, and leased them to this subsidiary company in 1977. A fifth aircraft, N827AA, was bought from a US dealer the following year. They were probably the last large piston-engined aircraft to be bought by a mainstream US carrier. American jet services ran from New York etc to St Croix, and the Convairs shuttled passengers to and fro on the final leg. St Thomas was actually a very busy little airport with other small aircraft operators coming from San Juan and other points, and the Convairs just fitted in with those. Here’s a nice shot of two of them.

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=614

The FAA allocated significant funds to deal with the runway, and a large extension was built out on fill into the Caribbean, giving the present 7,000 foot runway. This was completed in 1982, when all five Convairs were sold on to Air Resorts, a start-up operation in California.

Not everyone else gave up jet service to St Thomas during this time. Pan Am ended their 727 operation, as part of a general reduction in the area, but Eastern continued with 727 jets, and so did BWIA. The 727 couldn’t make it to the US mainland from such a short runway, and most of these flights flew a triangular arrangement through St Croix as well.

The number of scheduled flights on the Convair shuttle varied by season, peaking in the winter, and there might be multiple aircraft, often two and occasionally three, connecting with each American 707 at St Croix. On arrival there, the handling agent gave full attention to passengers and baggage transferring to the St Thomas shuttle, and there were complaints from passengers travelling to St Croix itself that their bags were left unhandled until the shuttle aircraft were got away.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...pg=5456,556339

Running American Inter Island was Cy Collins, a lifelong aviation exec doubtless having fun in his years before retirement being back with R-2800s, who spent much of his career with Panagra, then moved to American when it was sold. In earlier times he had been one of the covert crew, co-ordinated by Pan Am, who in WW2 penetrated, disorganised and finally eliminated the German-owned carriers, principally Condor, who were quite prevalent across South America at the time.

https://www.amherst.edu/aboutamherst...9/cyruscollins

jlemon

An excellent response from WHBM!

I remember my first time flying into St. Thomas (STT) on board an Eastern Express DHC-6 Twin Otter from St. Croix. If I recall correctly, the old 4,650 foot runway was located closer to the hilly shoreline. It appears the 7,000 foot runway that was constructed following the American and Trans Caribbean 727 accidents was built further away from the shoreline, no doubt for safety reasons. This may explain why photos of the aftermath of the Trans Caribbean accident depict the burned out 727 fuselage on the side of a hill. Photos of the current 7,000 foot runway appear to show that the old runway is now a ramp area with a number of parked aircraft visible in the photos I've seen.

I believe this AA Convair 440 service continued into the early 80's. The American Inter-Island commemorative display at the American Airlines C.R. Smith aviation museum includes a timetable dated June 1, 1982 with four flights a day listed between St. Thomas and San Juan, and five flights a day between St. Thomas and St. Croix.

Following construction of the new runway, American resumed jet service into St. Thomas, including flights with Airbus A300-600R equipment which appears to be the largest aircraft ever operated into STT in scheduled passenger service.

BTW, my very first flight on a B757-200 was from St. Thomas on the short hop over to St. Croix. The airline was Eastern.

Seat 2A

Great question - great answer! I was wondering if the answer lie in the Caribbean, perhaps with Prinair and its Herons. Thanks to WHBM for the great detail. ^

Seat 2A

Good morning, gang! After such a great batch of questions from jlemon, I thought we’d break away from some of the schedule based questions for a bit and try a few dealing with airline history. Over the course of researching questions, I’ve spent literally hours trolling obscure corners of the internet and discovered equally obscure bits of information about airline operations that – at the time I came across them – deemed too obscure to include in my questions. Still, I dutifully made note of them and, in light of the impressive knowledge exhibited amongst you all over the past few months, I figured I’d go ahead and submit some of these questions to you for your consideration. Enjoy!

As always, please limit your responses to no more than two or three questions so that others may have a chance to participate.


1. Name the seven airlines involved in the Memphis to Salt Lake City route award case facing the CAB in 1974. What were the three finalists? Which airline ultimately was granted authority?

2. This company manufactures the jet bridges used at Spokane’s Geiger Field. What is unique about these jetways that makes them so popular amongst passengers flying into or out of Spokane? What is the name of the company that manufactures them?

3. Name all of the airlines that located to Denver Stapleton’s new D Concourse when it opened in 1973.

4. In late 1986, it was discovered that this well known brand of toilet paper had less of an impact on Republic Airlines’ DC-9 toilets than the previous brand. Can you name both the new and old brands of toilet paper used by Republic?

5. What was the average time spent taxiing from gate to runway at New York’s LaGuardia Airport in 1979?

6. What meal did passengers overwhelmingly vote for as their favorite on Ozark Airlines in 1971?

7. Sticking with Ozark for a moment, what two colors were the table linens and the napkins used in Ozark’s First Class service during the early seventies?

8. The early versions of the Pratt & Whitney JT9D engines that powered the new 747 were fraught with teething problems. What percentage of Pan Am’s 747 flights were delayed during their first three months of service in 1970? What was the primary cause of these delays?

9. What was the seat pitch on Delta’s original Convair 880s when they were delivered fresh from the factory in 1960?

10. Name the famous regional brand of peanuts catered on Texas International and Continental flights out of Albuquerque during the early 1970s.

11. Name the three factors that most influenced Texas International’s decision to switch its gates from the C Concourse to the D Concourse at Denver’s Stapleton International in 1980.

12. Regarding the Eskimo who’s image appears on the tails of Alaska Airlines jets – which Alaskan tribal group is he from?

13. What was the number one complaint amongst passengers arriving at Knoxville, Tennessee in 1982?

14. It’s a well-known fact that American Airlines once saved over $40,000.00 per year just by removing a single olive from its salads. What’s not so well known is that another olive supplier had offered American a much better deal that would have cut American’s olive expenditures in half. American subsequently declined this offer however. What was the name of the other olive supplier?

15. Does anybody remember the color of the carpet in Salt Lake City’s new airport terminal extension when it opened in 1983? Why did the local passengers not like it?

16. In 1975, North Central Airlines switched from longtime coffee supplier Maxwell House to another, well known supplier. What was the name of the new coffee North Central started serving in late 1975?
Bonus points: How long did North Central continue to serve the new coffee brand before switching back to Maxwell House?

17. In the “I can’t Believe They Actually Kept This Statistic!” department, what was the most common color of Braniff 727 seen at Colorado Springs’ Peterson Field between 1971 and 1975?

18. Can you name the locations of United’s U.S. based flight kitchens prior to 1990? (Hint: There were over a dozen of them)

19. What is the most common variety of house plant found in most U.S. airline club rooms?

20. Name the eight categories of music found on Continental’s Golden Marquis Theater during the late 1970s. Remember those old pneumatic headphones we used to listen to it through?

21. When Braniff switched to all leather seats on its 727 fleet, what breed of cow was the leather said to have come from?

22. Describe what happened at the Albuquerque Sun Port on the day when TWA introduced jet service to Albuquerque with the Convair 880 in 1961?

23. What was the number one requested drink aboard United’s Royal Hawaiian DC-8 flights to Honolulu in 1969? (Hint: It wasn’t the Mai Tai)

24. Can you name the final four airlines to be considered in the Civil Aeronautics Board’s Midwest Tier Award deliberations in 1972? Additionally, what cities were involved in these deliberations?

Icecat

12. Regarding the Eskimo who’s image appears on the tails of Alaska Airlines jets – which Alaskan tribal group is he from?

I'm going with the Inupiaq tribe.

jlemon

12. I think this may actually be the Inupiat tribe, perhaps from the Kotzebue region in northwest Alaska.

BTW, back in the day, Alaska Air had four different logos on the tails of their B727-100s. Besides the Eskimo (who had more of a frown back then which was later changed to a smile), tail art included a gold rush prospector, an Indian totem symbol and Russian-style onion dome structures. The Eskimo was the only one that was carried forward. However, at one point AS management tried to introduce a new livery which did not include the Eskimo. The result was a huge outcry to keep him with Alaska Air employees leading the charge to do so. Management (including the late Bruce Kennedy who was CEO at the time) listened and the smiling Eskimo is obviously still around.

jrl767

lots of interesting chatter in this old Alaska Airlines thread, including much of what jlemon just posted

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alask...kimo-tail.html