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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Dec 9, 2013, 3:05 pm
  #3856  
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Originally Posted by miniliq
Actually jrl22 had proposed Middle East (ME) and Olympic (OA) upthread in post 3815; I agree with him on ME; for the fourth, how about Saudi Arabian Airlines (SV).
You would be correct, miniliq! SV it was, making the four airlines Saudia Arabian, Ethiopian, MEA and PIA.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 3:27 pm
  #3857  
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Originally Posted by jlemon
Hmmm....the "far northwest".....we could be talkin' about Alaska here.

So perhaps a couple of wild guesses are in order:

Pan Am flew into Whitehorse at one point with a DC-6B (I think) with a round trip routing of Juneau-Whitehorse-Fairbanks several days a week....but I don't think PA operated a B707 into Whitehorse before they dropped the route completely.

So this could be Wien Air Alaska (WC).....first with a Fairchild F-27 on round trip routing of FAI-YXY-JNU and later with a B737-200 on the same routing.

Winner! Winner! Chicken dinner! Wien Air Alaska is correct. The service in 1970 was with the F27 but later changed to a 737-200. As of 1970, Pan Am was not operating scheduled services into YXY nor - so far as I know - anywhere else in Canada.

Last edited by Seat 2A; Dec 9, 2013 at 3:34 pm
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 9:50 pm
  #3858  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
The following 6 questions are based upon schedules published in a 1966 International OAG

5. What was Korean Air Lines’ only international route from Seoul? What type of aircraft did they use?

6. This west Asian airline offered the only scheduled jet service from Shanghai and Canton, China. What airline was it? Added bonus if you can say where it flew to.
With help from my resources I'll go with these answers:
5. Seoul (SEL in those days) to Osaka (OSA in those days) with a Super Constellation.

6. My immediate thought was Civil Air Administration of China -- CAAC (IV) -- which gives me an excuse to show one of my rarer airline minis -- I hope you guys will tolerate this diversion.



Among the many cities CAAC served, both Shanghai (SHA then) and Canton (CAN) had nonstops to Peking (PEK). BUT, they had no jets on those routes.

So that's the long way around to what I hope is the correct answer, which ties in with another question: Pakistan International (PK) using 720s nonstop from Dacca (DAC) in East Pakistan.

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Old Dec 9, 2013, 10:02 pm
  #3859  
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those are extremely cool "artifacts" miniliq
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 11:36 pm
  #3860  
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Originally Posted by jrl22
7. Name the three airlines that operated Convair 990s into Rio de Janeiro.

I posited Varig (RG) and Swissair (SR) back in post #3815, but I don't have any other guesses to add

Aw, c'mon j ~ I'm sure you could make an educated guess. G'wan - give it a go! You're two thirds the way there already.


16. In 1977 this became the first airliner to carry over one billion passengers.

how about the Boeing 727? I was initially thinking the 707 due to longevity of service, but the sheer size and worldwide diversity of the 727 fleet might have gotten it over that milestone sooner.

Way to flesh it out! How about the 727 indeed! Since then it has of course been joined by the _______...

19. What airline was the world’s largest operator of Boeing 727-200s?

FedEx acquired dozens if not hundreds of 72S jets as passenger operators withdrew them from service, as well as taking the last dozen or so off the Boeing production line ... I know their fleet included ex-AA, AC (including three for which I ran a pre-delivery Digital Flight Data Recorder certification flight test in my Boeing days), DL, EA

Even Fed Ex didn't operate as many as the correct answer to this question. Keep in mind that Fed Ex also operated a large fleet of 727-100s as well. Please try again!
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Old Dec 10, 2013, 12:02 am
  #3861  
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Originally Posted by miniliq
5. What was Korean Air Lines’ only international route from Seoul? What type of aircraft did they use?

With help from my resources I'll go with these answers:

Seoul (SEL in those days) to Osaka (OSA in those days) with a Super Constellation.

6. This west Asian airline offered the only scheduled jet service from Shanghai and Canton, China. What airline was it? Added bonus if you can say where it flew to.

6. My immediate thought was Civil Air Administration of China -- CAAC (IV) -- which gives me an excuse to show one of my rarer airline minis -- I hope you guys will tolerate this diversion.

Among the many cities CAAC served, both Shanghai (SHA then) and Canton (CAN) had nonstops to Peking (PEK). BUT, they had no jets on those routes.

So that's the long way around to what I hope is the correct answer, which ties in with another question: Pakistan International (PK) using 720s nonstop from Dacca (DAC) in East Pakistan.

Correct on both counts with the exception of the aircraft - KE were shown to be using an F-27 in the '66 schedules. I can't help but wonder about the routing between DAC-CAN-PEK. What was going on in Dacca back then? Simple refueling stop or was there something more?

And one more question for you ~ what would your answer to #5 have been without your "resources"?

Last edited by Seat 2A; Dec 10, 2013 at 2:25 pm
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Old Dec 10, 2013, 12:31 am
  #3862  
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I have read somewhere that the Rolls Royce powered 707-420 series was offered as an inducement to get BOAC to buy the 707 (WHBM - any insight on this..?) I believe the Rolls Royce Conways were - early on at least - more powerful than the early Pratt & Whitneys being offered otherwise. The later turbofan JT3Ds were up in the 18000 lb thrust range, but the Conways weren't far behind and I think the ones that powered the VC10 were over 19000 lb thrust.


The Conway 43s in the Super VC-10 were 21,800 lb thrust, well above what was ever offered on the 707.

Regarding the Rolls-Royce 707s, BOAC were fairly well sold on this engine choice, and both Boeing and Douglas (the latter of course never sold a DC8 to the UK) liked having the Rolls engine option on the 707/DC8 to keep P&W under control from having a monopoly. What was the real issue was the UK government giving permission for BOAC to have 707s at all. There was immense "dollar spending" paranoia in the UK in the 1950s, and the government, which had invested large sums in many home-grown aircraft programmes, just couldn't understand how just about the whole lot (the Viscount being a notable exception) were pretty useless, especially the long-haul types. Tudor, Hermes, Comet and Britannia all had calamitous service records, the only worthwhile type in the entire BOAC fleet in 1956 (when the 707s were ordered) was the Canadian-built Canadair Argonauts. The fact that the 707 could have Rolls-Royce engines was however a sweetener which eventually tipped the balance, but BOAC were told the 707s were only for the "competitive" North Atlantic routes, and not for elsewhere, and a minimum number only. Later rescinded, of course.

This dollar spending issue was such that when the BOAC DC-7Cs were being ordered shortly before the 707s, as a stopgap to all these issues, it was seriously considered ordering them as the little-known DC-7D with Rolls-Royce Tyne turboprops. It was only when Rolls were honest enough to say the Tyne would not be ready until the big jets came along that it was agreed not to insist BOAC took it. In the end the thundering, vibrating Tyne was even later than that.
The schedules also show VC10 service from a company called Central African Airways. They looked to be a Salisbury, Rhodesia based operation that flew single class F7s and VCs on regional flights to JNB, LUM, MRU and BUQ. However, there were two F/Y VC10s scheduled as follows:

CE892 JNB-SAY-NBO-FCO-LHR
CE893 LHR-FCO-NBO-SAY-JNB

I have never been able to find a single picture of a Central African VC10, and scant reference to one in a casual search of the internet. Do you have any further information on this possibly seventh LHR VC10 operator?


It's an honorary service, actually it was a BOAC VC10, aircraft and crew, doing the flight. CAA was one of the large African airlines (think East African, South African, West African as well) that were started off by BOAC in colonial days. Just like EAA a few years later, CAA was riven by politics once the multiple colonies that had joint ownership became independent, and given that CAA covered Rhodesia and Zambia, political opposites, it all fell apart, Air Rhodesia, Zambia Airways and Air Malawi picking up the pieces.

They did once have Viscount 700 services to London, stopping at many points along the way, but this was just uncompetitive once the BOAC jets came along, so they placed their flight number on a couple of BOAC schedules per week from Jo'burg to London that transited Salisbury (nowadays Harare). Initially done with Comets, and later VC10s. A dedicated aircraft was not used, it was just one from the BOAC fleet.

Incidentally, I don't believe they ever had F27s, just Viscount 700s and DC3s. However, they may have used aircraft from surrounding countries under their flight number, just like the VC10 arrangement.
Many thanks WHBM for filling in the blanks with such quality detail. I had seen pictures of Viscounts wearing the CAA livery. It wouldn't have been one of the better liveries to grace a VC-10 though. Just my personal vote, but I would give that nod to East African with honorable mention to BOAC's classic Speedbird livery.
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Old Dec 10, 2013, 3:26 am
  #3863  
 
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I'll just add to the CAA VC10 notes by observing that BOAC did a lot of this operating for other carriers, which back in the 1950s-60s they commonly had a financial involvement with. Well known are the various accidents to the Comet Mk 1 aircraft, culminating in the loss of an aircraft near Italy operating a service from London to Johannesburg. Regularly portrayed as a BOAC flight, it was in fact South African Airways flight SA201. In this case the South Africans had trained up their own crews to operate the Comet, although it was just one assigned from the BOAC fleet.
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Old Dec 10, 2013, 5:08 am
  #3864  
 
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Correct on both counts! I can't help but wonder about the routing between DAC-CAN-PEK. What was going on in Dacca back then? Simple refuelling stop or was there something more?
Bit of old colonial history here, but when India got independence in 1947 the predominantly Muslim areas became the separate state of Pakistan. There were two such areas either side of India proper, West Pakistan (nowadays just Pakistan) centred on Karachi, and East Pakistan (nowadays Bangladesh) centred on Dacca (today spelled Dhaka), split by India. It was one country until the war which led to East Pakistan getting independence in 1971. PIA played a significant part in attempting to keep the two halves together, of course, especially as there were periodic diplomatic issues which meant they had to fly down around the tip of India, tripling the distance and requiring long-haul equipment, originally Constellations and later 720Bs. So it was natural for Pakistani flights eastwards to be through Dacca. PIA were a real early operator to China, when there were very few such operators, and they picked up much of what traffic there was from Europe and elsewhere in Asia.
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Old Dec 10, 2013, 2:28 pm
  #3865  
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5. What was Korean Air Lines’ only international route from Seoul? What type of aircraft did they use?

I apologize here but I responded to miniliq's post too quickly. He was indeed correct regarding Osaka as KE's sole destination out of Seoul, but the aircraft type was a Fokker F-27, not a Constellation.
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Old Dec 10, 2013, 2:50 pm
  #3866  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
5. What was Korean Air Lines’ only international route from Seoul? What type of aircraft did they use?

I apologize here but I responded to miniliq's post too quickly. He was indeed correct regarding Osaka as KE's sole destination out of Seoul, but the aircraft type was a Fokker F-27, not a Constellation.
Well it was a good guess by Mini because Korean had Connies on long-term lease from Flying Tigers at the time. I wonder what they were using them for.

Even in 1968 Korean's international operations were handled by just one DC9, which did a morning round trip from Seoul to Osaka, and an afternoon one from Seoul to Tokyo. It's amazing how the country has advanced from that to A380s in little more than 40 years.
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Old Dec 11, 2013, 3:38 pm
  #3867  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A

The following question is based upon schedules published in a 1970 North American OAG

27. While Anchorage was a major refueling point for international flights between Europe and Asia, only two airlines operated international flights from Fairbanks. Identify the airlines and the routes flown.
27. I distinctly remember Pan Am flying a New York JFK - Fairbanks - Tokyo routing on a daily basis back around this time with a Boeing 707. I also think this service may have been extended on some days of the week from Tokyo to Osaka but perhaps not daily.

This leaves the second air carrier....and I'll assume this airline served either Asia or Europe or both from FAI. However, I'm drawing a complete blank concerning its identity as just about every air carrier I know of that was flying the polar route between Europe and Asia at this time stopped in Anchorage for fuel.

Oh, wait.....it wasn't Cubana, was it?! Perhaps the Havana - Vladivostok route?!
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Old Dec 11, 2013, 6:09 pm
  #3868  
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Originally Posted by jlemon
27. While Anchorage was a major refueling point for international flights between Europe and Asia, only two airlines operated international flights from Fairbanks. Identify the airlines and the routes flown.

I distinctly remember Pan Am flying a New York JFK - Fairbanks - Tokyo routing on a daily basis back around this time with a Boeing 707. I also think this service may have been extended on some days of the week from Tokyo to Osaka but perhaps not daily.

This leaves the second air carrier....and I'll assume this airline served either Asia or Europe or both from FAI. However, I'm drawing a complete blank concerning its identity as just about every air carrier I know of that was flying the polar route between Europe and Asia at this time stopped in Anchorage for fuel.

Oh, wait.....it wasn't Cubana, was it?! Perhaps the Havana - Vladivostok route?!

Pan Am is correct! As to the other airline and route, you've already mentioned it as part of another answer in this collection...
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Old Dec 12, 2013, 6:57 am
  #3869  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
7. Name the three airlines that operated Convair 990s into Rio de Janeiro.
Originally Posted by jrl22
I posited Varig (RG) and Swissair (SR) back in post #3815, but I don't have any other guesses to add ...
Aw, c'mon j ~ I'm sure you could make an educated guess. G'wan - give it a go! You're two thirds the way there already.
ok, here goes ... SAS?
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Old Dec 12, 2013, 7:29 am
  #3870  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
... 19. What airline was the world’s largest operator of Boeing 727-200s?...
Originally Posted by jrl22
... FedEx acquired dozens if not hundreds of 72S jets as passenger operators withdrew them from service, as well as taking the last dozen or so off the Boeing production line ... I know their fleet included ex-AA, AC (including three for which I ran a pre-delivery Digital Flight Data Recorder certification flight test in my Boeing days), DL, EA
Even Fed Ex didn't operate as many as the correct answer to this question. Keep in mind that Fed Ex also operated a large fleet of 727-100s as well. Please try again!
well UPS is similar to FedEx in that they acquired a bunch of these jets from a bunch of passenger airlines, but I know that they are also similar to FedEx in that a good part of their fleet was the -100

which leads me to think that the key is "acquired" ... Delta operated jets originally delivered to Western and Pan Am (and possibly Northeast) after it swallowed those competitors; Pan Am's fleet included jets that had initially worn National livery ... their N-numbers alone ran from N401DA to N526DA, and I seem to recall seeing some ex-Eastern jets at various times which would give them at least 130 examples of the type
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