Fall 2008 Catering Changes at UA
Aug 19, 2008, 8:53 am
#76
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ANP
Programs: UA 1k, Marriott Plat, HH gold, Avis/Hertz Pres
Posts: 1,408
BUT what happens when 25,000 of us decide to leave then?
Aug 19, 2008, 8:54 am
#77
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: Pacific Northwest
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So is this just airline speak that I don't understand, or are they really only doing this (for now) for aircraft departing IAD to Europe, but not the reverse? Seems strange to me, and most passengers who experienced the outbound, say, IAD-FRA flight would likely expect the same for the return flight and thus self-cater/eat prior to departure, only to then be served a free meal on the return.
Aug 19, 2008, 8:54 am
#78
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K MM, Marriott Life Plat, various others of little note
Posts: 2,763
I'm gonna get a bunch of folks ganging up on me for this, but:
Really, now, food service at 30,000 feet is a very inefficient way of keeping folks fed and watered. It is a very costly way to feed people and the contraints of a galley tend to result in a pretty poor product. Moreover, the FA labor cost associated with serving is exhorbitant compared to sea level options. Even my experiences in TATL and Trans-Pac business class have been unsatisfactory. (Never able to get red meat that is not totally cooked through).
Of course, anything can be had at 30,000 for a price. And I don't want to pay that price. And I don't want the cost of a miserable 30,000 E tv meal in a tin inherently incorporated into my ticket price. I'd truly rather have a full, enjoyable, meal at the airport and forego the airline slop altogether, if it ends up reflected in ticket prices (which I presume it does in some way, shape, or form).
Simply, I suggest that the food service business at 30,000 feet is not one airlines should be in in the general sense. BOB allows one to sate one's hunger at a price that reflects the cost of delivery of the service. And yes, it is a bit expensive, and the carriers are successfully shifting my eating decisions out of the air and back onto land, where it belongs.
I also suggest that, on balance, most pax would prefer better AVOD and in flight internet to free, low caliber meals and snacks. (Please note this, Mr. Tilton)
I am, however, troubled that UAL is once again a pioneer in the race to the bottom. This portends for other service "enhancements" to come.
Really, now, food service at 30,000 feet is a very inefficient way of keeping folks fed and watered. It is a very costly way to feed people and the contraints of a galley tend to result in a pretty poor product. Moreover, the FA labor cost associated with serving is exhorbitant compared to sea level options. Even my experiences in TATL and Trans-Pac business class have been unsatisfactory. (Never able to get red meat that is not totally cooked through).
Of course, anything can be had at 30,000 for a price. And I don't want to pay that price. And I don't want the cost of a miserable 30,000 E tv meal in a tin inherently incorporated into my ticket price. I'd truly rather have a full, enjoyable, meal at the airport and forego the airline slop altogether, if it ends up reflected in ticket prices (which I presume it does in some way, shape, or form).
Simply, I suggest that the food service business at 30,000 feet is not one airlines should be in in the general sense. BOB allows one to sate one's hunger at a price that reflects the cost of delivery of the service. And yes, it is a bit expensive, and the carriers are successfully shifting my eating decisions out of the air and back onto land, where it belongs.
I also suggest that, on balance, most pax would prefer better AVOD and in flight internet to free, low caliber meals and snacks. (Please note this, Mr. Tilton)
I am, however, troubled that UAL is once again a pioneer in the race to the bottom. This portends for other service "enhancements" to come.
Aug 19, 2008, 8:58 am
#79
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kampala, Uganda - Evanston, IL
Programs: UA 1P, AA, LH Cattle Class, SPG
Posts: 426
[Rant On}
Simply Unbelievable. I would rather pay more to fly on an airline that keeps its service level high. Today I was pricing out UA flights ORD - SFO - ORD and they are coming up as $291. Mid September through December. This is significantly less than I paid or could pay 5 years ago.
If too much capacity is the issue. WHY DOESN'T United REDUCE capacity? I would much rather pay a base of $450 for this flight, knowing the service is the same. Or even more. If I wanted crappy service, LCCs are a dime a dozen. Oh, wait, they give better service than United...so what's the point of United? If they can't figure out how to be the premium carrier to drive premium prices then what?
I would much rather pay %30 - 40 more than the LCCs to get consistent service, scheduling etc. If that were $600 ORD > west coast, so be it. I wouldn't blink and my company wouldn't either. Doesn't United realize that there are customers out there who might not be able to afford F but would be willing to pay for a better Y than the LCCs can offer? Any why pay for F if it's going to be the new Y anyhow?
[rant off]
Simply Unbelievable. I would rather pay more to fly on an airline that keeps its service level high. Today I was pricing out UA flights ORD - SFO - ORD and they are coming up as $291. Mid September through December. This is significantly less than I paid or could pay 5 years ago.
If too much capacity is the issue. WHY DOESN'T United REDUCE capacity? I would much rather pay a base of $450 for this flight, knowing the service is the same. Or even more. If I wanted crappy service, LCCs are a dime a dozen. Oh, wait, they give better service than United...so what's the point of United? If they can't figure out how to be the premium carrier to drive premium prices then what?
I would much rather pay %30 - 40 more than the LCCs to get consistent service, scheduling etc. If that were $600 ORD > west coast, so be it. I wouldn't blink and my company wouldn't either. Doesn't United realize that there are customers out there who might not be able to afford F but would be willing to pay for a better Y than the LCCs can offer? Any why pay for F if it's going to be the new Y anyhow?
[rant off]
Aug 19, 2008, 9:00 am
#80
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SAN
Programs: UA 1MM/1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 6,832
I haven't noticed that, probably because I don't take a tally of the eating habits of my fellow passengers.
Personally, I always had the second snack on p.s. breakfast flights, since I generally don't go to lunch from the airport. That leaves quite a gap between breakfast on east coast time and dinner on west coast time.
Personally, I always had the second snack on p.s. breakfast flights, since I generally don't go to lunch from the airport. That leaves quite a gap between breakfast on east coast time and dinner on west coast time.
I'm always curious as to whether C/F pax "want everything that's coming to them."I too always have the second snack -- keeps me from running to a restaurant first thing on landing. Look, I agree that it's a major cut -- I'm just saying that IME, about 50% of pax don't take it.
I bought my last roundtrip in Z instead of D since they announced the cuts to p.s. F. The Z fare was $3225. Let's say UA bumped the fare to $3275 but kept the second snack. Would anybody suddenly say "whoa, I'm not paying that much!" and walk away?
Aug 19, 2008, 9:01 am
#81
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gatwick, UK
Programs: UA *G, BA Silver
Posts: 1,673
Even if this has little impact in the short-term, I just don't see where their future 1K and GS customers will come from. No-one starts out their flying career in Business and First and who, under 30 today, is going to grow loyalty to UA flying E or E+.
It would seem that there is zero strategic thinking at UA - just tactical, fire-fighting panic. Times may be hard, but surely surviving tough times is about keeping a cool head and thinking hard (but not long) about what your business really is.
It would seem that there is zero strategic thinking at UA - just tactical, fire-fighting panic. Times may be hard, but surely surviving tough times is about keeping a cool head and thinking hard (but not long) about what your business really is.
Aug 19, 2008, 9:02 am
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Posts: 24,249
Substituting "Buy on Board" for complimentary food on lengthy flights to Hawaii and now Europe that widely span at least one mealtime is downright shameful. 
Aug 19, 2008, 9:02 am
#83
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: UA 1K MM, Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA PLT
Posts: 1,082
I have almost 900,000 still in my MP bank...was a 1K for years.
Moved to DC this year, got a status match to Continental Gold.
5 segments on UA and 80 so far on Continental.
With Continental coming to *A soon, I'm never looking back to UA again...
This is the last straw...
randomman
Moved to DC this year, got a status match to Continental Gold.
5 segments on UA and 80 so far on Continental.
With Continental coming to *A soon, I'm never looking back to UA again...
This is the last straw...
randomman
Aug 19, 2008, 9:02 am
#84
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SAN
Programs: UA 1MM/1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 6,832
Aug 19, 2008, 9:05 am
#85
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Washington, DC, USA
Programs: UA-1Kmm, AA-EX Plt mm-, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 1,093
Aug 19, 2008, 9:06 am
#86
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: N Charleston South Carolina
Programs: UA PM (by 2MM), DL GM (by 3.5MM), Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,655
It's a cleaver ploy to get rid of a hub. I mean, I used to fly through IAD to take 947/946 to LA. Not any more.
Sometimes, I'd fly to IAD to take flights to Europe.
Not any more, I'll fly to ORD.
Sure, I may still fly UA, but I won't book 3 class transcons (and ua will see the demand slip, then get rid of them due to customer demands), and likewise will see demand drop out of IAD and reduce the flights there as well.
Next year, we'll see a whole slew of reduction of domestic capacity cuts into/out of IAD because of this. Then, the international reductions. Then no more IAD (except from ORD/JFK/DEN/SFO and LAX).
Sad, but going to happen.
What really gets my goat is I've already bought and upgraded flights on 3 class transcons just to get a good seat and meal, and now I would have picked a 757 just to get a good meal.
But, of course, since I bought a ticket, I can't change without penality. But they can change food service.
Not fair.
Billy
Sometimes, I'd fly to IAD to take flights to Europe.
Not any more, I'll fly to ORD.
Sure, I may still fly UA, but I won't book 3 class transcons (and ua will see the demand slip, then get rid of them due to customer demands), and likewise will see demand drop out of IAD and reduce the flights there as well.
Next year, we'll see a whole slew of reduction of domestic capacity cuts into/out of IAD because of this. Then, the international reductions. Then no more IAD (except from ORD/JFK/DEN/SFO and LAX).
Sad, but going to happen.
What really gets my goat is I've already bought and upgraded flights on 3 class transcons just to get a good seat and meal, and now I would have picked a 757 just to get a good meal.
But, of course, since I bought a ticket, I can't change without penality. But they can change food service.
Not fair.
Billy
Aug 19, 2008, 9:07 am
#87
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Washington DC
Programs: QR: Gold; Marriott: Amb; UA: 1K; Taj: Silv
Posts: 254
Back to the present topic, I'm moving my International (both TATL and TPAC) to other *A partners, and after I burn my UA miles, I'm switching to CO. I can't envision any way in which this will end well for United. This was already a slippery slope that the legacy carriers were treading, and now it got a whole lot more treacherous.
Last edited by l etoile; Aug 20, 2008 at 7:55 am Reason: removed deleted quote
Aug 19, 2008, 9:11 am
#88
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, BA Silver, Marriott Plat., Hertz Pres. Circle, Avis First
Posts: 917
After reading many posts of this nature, this is the one that finally has me thinking of getting a status match on another airline. I am a 1K who will fly about 175-200k by the end of the year, and I spend about $30k+/year on United. That is a combination of Y and C tickets, and I upgrade the Y ones. Yes, I am an upgrader. As annoying as these cuts are, especially in combination with past cuts, the big issue here is that this really does look desperate. I have already spent my mileage down to a minimum (keeping enough for international upgrades at times when the SWUs have run out), but now I really do think I have to hedge my bets by building up status elsewhere. I guess it is AA or CO for me in the near future...
Aug 19, 2008, 9:12 am
#89
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist, National EE
Posts: 253
im sorry, even getting rid of meals in 3class is a joke.
yes they may be upgraders BUT there your most loyal customers!!! im sorry but i try to fly more united just for that extra e500's for the iad-den flight, yeah i could spend moeny on other airlines, but i want that upgrade.
yes they may be upgraders BUT there your most loyal customers!!! im sorry but i try to fly more united just for that extra e500's for the iad-den flight, yeah i could spend moeny on other airlines, but i want that upgrade.
The value of upgrades (be it miles, or e500s) just dropped significantly for me if all they buy my on a IAD-LAX transcon is a bigger seat. The E+ seat is really big enough. Those of us who fly mostly or entirely domestic, and aren't located in NY just got the shaft. FWIW, my trips are about an even mix of business & leisure, but most of the miles come from business (transcon & Hawaii). I use miles to upgrade these flights more reliably than e500s.
I have what I call 'Short Term Loyalty' to airlines, measured in years, not decades. I flew AA almost exclusively from ~2003-2006, but jumped ship when they added copays to domestic mileage upgrades. I've been satisfied with UA since then, and have gone out of my way to book travel on them, regardless of competitor prices. However, changes like this seem designed to drive away any ounce of loyalty that I have left, and turn me into the kayak, cheapfares, priceline perusing Kettle in search of the fare that saves a dollar, and provides little if any benefit to the airline.
One has to ask, how long before domestic first on 2-class is enhanced to 'complementary' BOB? (assuming that the C BOB is complementary - that wasn't clear from the phrasing in the memo)
Extra hurdles I was considering to requalify for 1P (I may be a few thousand EQM short) just went out the window, since the value of the extra bonus miles were just depreciated.
Aug 19, 2008, 9:13 am
#90
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2005
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The letters CO are getting bigger and bigger in my head...