Are You Thankful That You Fly United And Not Southwest Yet?
Dec 28, 2022, 5:28 pm
#91
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
You keep mentioning about things that happened 10 years ago or in the 90's. This is NOT the same Southwest or United.
Southwest grew A LOT and invested NOTHING in IT or changed their operations from the days of issuing plastic boarding passes. Herb Kellener and the folksy happy days are gone.
United merged and grew A LOT and invested in IT and also organized their hubs to not let issues at one hub cascade throughout the system. Jeff Smisek is GONE.
Yeah so United charges for luggage, better seats and snack boxes. Most of us avoid those through one way or another and going by the price of now, and not 20 years ago, Southwest is priced higher than United for most of my needs. I can pick a reasonable fare when I want to go instead of having to go at 4AM or 10PM to get the lowest fare on Southwest.
Just did a fare comparison for March 3 - 5 from DEN - LAX on both United and Southwest with similar departure times. All in prices are:
Southwest: $247.96 (Wanna Get Away Fare) Optionals: Early Bird for $20.00 each way for a total of $40.00; Wanna Get Away Plus for $41.00
United: $212.25 (Economy NOT Basic Economy)
Don't get me started on Early Bird that comes with ZERO guarantees that one will be in group A.
Southwest grew A LOT and invested NOTHING in IT or changed their operations from the days of issuing plastic boarding passes. Herb Kellener and the folksy happy days are gone.
United merged and grew A LOT and invested in IT and also organized their hubs to not let issues at one hub cascade throughout the system. Jeff Smisek is GONE.
Yeah so United charges for luggage, better seats and snack boxes. Most of us avoid those through one way or another and going by the price of now, and not 20 years ago, Southwest is priced higher than United for most of my needs. I can pick a reasonable fare when I want to go instead of having to go at 4AM or 10PM to get the lowest fare on Southwest.
Just did a fare comparison for March 3 - 5 from DEN - LAX on both United and Southwest with similar departure times. All in prices are:
Southwest: $247.96 (Wanna Get Away Fare) Optionals: Early Bird for $20.00 each way for a total of $40.00; Wanna Get Away Plus for $41.00
United: $212.25 (Economy NOT Basic Economy)
Don't get me started on Early Bird that comes with ZERO guarantees that one will be in group A.
United 118.60 plus 2 bags 198.60 (7:45 am dep)
Southwest DEN_LAX WGA 98.98 (includes 2 bags 8:50 am dep).
Dec 28, 2022, 5:29 pm
#92
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: HHonors:Gold,Marriot:Silver,United:Gold, Delta:Gold
Posts: 94
I assumed you did the best there which was 21d+ booking, same routes, and relatively same timing. My suggestion at the pricing is that the UA price didn't come close to the offering of what you get with WN. (2bags, but I only accounted for 1 bag RT as that it's reasonable to assume it's an average)
prestonh Posted a more reasonable (apples to apples) price comparison. Also he just showed OWs.
> Not sure what or how Southwest does it, but with United, with their new no change fee rule. I've changed flights multiple times when prices drop and have a bunch of travel credits for the price drop.
WN for a long time has operated on the model that the ticket was a flexible, but non-refundable ticket. At the moment UA and WN are the same in that reguard. (They've gotten a bit stricter on who gets SDCs)
prestonh Posted a more reasonable (apples to apples) price comparison. Also he just showed OWs.
> Not sure what or how Southwest does it, but with United, with their new no change fee rule. I've changed flights multiple times when prices drop and have a bunch of travel credits for the price drop.
WN for a long time has operated on the model that the ticket was a flexible, but non-refundable ticket. At the moment UA and WN are the same in that reguard. (They've gotten a bit stricter on who gets SDCs)
Last edited by monksy; Dec 28, 2022 at 5:31 pm Reason: update
Dec 28, 2022, 5:37 pm
#93
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: IAH & CMH
Programs: UA GS, UA MM, Marriott Ambassador, Hilton Diamond, Uber Platinum :)
Posts: 780
I sat on the ramp in CMH for 45 minutes before the ground crew brought us into the gate last night. Another plane had been sitting there longer.
Baggage claim was a circus and as it was 12:30am we called it a night and left. We went back today and grabbed our bags - no employees to assist, nobody keeping an eye on the hundreds of bags that did not seem to be organized in any way.
Interestingly the app did not show our bags had been unloaded from the plane - I guessed correctly that they had, but the ground crew probably didn't bother due to scan, which conveniently removes evidence of when they were actually delivered.
Still, they're getting better... last Christmas we waited on the ramp for 60 minutes so there's that.
As it relates to Southwest, I don't think anyone wishes any airline to have operational meltdowns the like of which WN have been dealing with.
However, United are a long way from being good operationally, at least in Columbus. And guess what... no "How did we do" email... hate to have those NPS scores reflect reality...
Baggage claim was a circus and as it was 12:30am we called it a night and left. We went back today and grabbed our bags - no employees to assist, nobody keeping an eye on the hundreds of bags that did not seem to be organized in any way.
Interestingly the app did not show our bags had been unloaded from the plane - I guessed correctly that they had, but the ground crew probably didn't bother due to scan, which conveniently removes evidence of when they were actually delivered.
Still, they're getting better... last Christmas we waited on the ramp for 60 minutes so there's that.
As it relates to Southwest, I don't think anyone wishes any airline to have operational meltdowns the like of which WN have been dealing with.
However, United are a long way from being good operationally, at least in Columbus. And guess what... no "How did we do" email... hate to have those NPS scores reflect reality...
Dec 28, 2022, 5:38 pm
#94
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Denver, Colorado
Programs: IHG Spire, Hilton Honors Gold, Marriott Titanium, Mileage Plus Gold
Posts: 1,736
I assumed you did the best there which was 21d+ booking, same routes, and relatively same timing. My suggestion at the pricing is that the UA price didn't come close to the offering of what you get with WN. (2bags, but I only accounted for 1 bag RT as that it's reasonable to assume it's an average)
prestonh Posted a more reasonable (apples to apples) price comparison. Also he just showed OWs.
> Not sure what or how Southwest does it, but with United, with their new no change fee rule. I've changed flights multiple times when prices drop and have a bunch of travel credits for the price drop.
WN for a long time has operated on the model that the ticket was a flexible, but non-refundable ticket. At the moment UA and WN are the same in that reguard. (They've gotten a bit stricter on who gets SDCs)
prestonh Posted a more reasonable (apples to apples) price comparison. Also he just showed OWs.
> Not sure what or how Southwest does it, but with United, with their new no change fee rule. I've changed flights multiple times when prices drop and have a bunch of travel credits for the price drop.
WN for a long time has operated on the model that the ticket was a flexible, but non-refundable ticket. At the moment UA and WN are the same in that reguard. (They've gotten a bit stricter on who gets SDCs)
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Dec 29, 2022 at 8:23 pm Reason: merged consecutive posts by same member; please use multi-quote
Dec 28, 2022, 5:44 pm
#95
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Programs: UA Platinum, 1MM
Posts: 13,461
It is too bad Southwest's passengers and staff have to deal with the fall out of management's poor decisions on IT, operations, etc. It really rests on their shoulders and am sure they will just continue to issue their mea culpas and we'll do better statements and keep their generous compensation packages.
I do appreciate the competition that Southwest has brought to many markets to drive prices down, but nowadays their pricing isn't that much better in many cases than other carriers especially if you have status on a carrier. The ability to check in two bags per passengers at no additional cost can be a huge savings for families/couples though so I see that attraction.
Outside of United since I have status, they just blend into any carrier (that is not Spirit or Frontier) that can get me from point A to B at the price I want to fly at. I rarely check in bags so not a cost I take into account.
I do appreciate the competition that Southwest has brought to many markets to drive prices down, but nowadays their pricing isn't that much better in many cases than other carriers especially if you have status on a carrier. The ability to check in two bags per passengers at no additional cost can be a huge savings for families/couples though so I see that attraction.
Outside of United since I have status, they just blend into any carrier (that is not Spirit or Frontier) that can get me from point A to B at the price I want to fly at. I rarely check in bags so not a cost I take into account.
Dec 28, 2022, 5:55 pm
#96
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
@seat38a wasn't sure on the return dates. fare construction is not generally dependent on a RT basis for domestic itineraries any longer so the one-way fares are more realistic, or you can even mix itineraries in practice.For the same day return, fares are the same but bag fees both ways would push UA much higher.
Dec 28, 2022, 5:58 pm
#97
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,544
@seat38a wasn't sure on the return dates. fare construction is not generally dependent on a RT basis for domestic itineraries any longer
Dec 28, 2022, 6:23 pm
#98
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Denver, Colorado
Programs: IHG Spire, Hilton Honors Gold, Marriott Titanium, Mileage Plus Gold
Posts: 1,736
@seat38a wasn't sure on the return dates. fare construction is not generally dependent on a RT basis for domestic itineraries any longer so the one-way fares are more realistic, or you can even mix itineraries in practice.For the same day return, fares are the same but bag fees both ways would push UA much higher.
Yeah so United charges for luggage, better seats and snack boxes. Most of us avoid those through one way or another and going by the price of now, and not 20 years ago, Southwest is priced higher than United for most of my needs. I can pick a reasonable fare when I want to go instead of having to go at 4AM or 10PM to get the lowest fare on Southwest.
Dec 28, 2022, 6:59 pm
#99
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
ok, so for $10 more you can return at 8:40 am. for the record, 5:40 am is still not 4am.
so for an elite, the RT fare on the selected time(s) is slightly cheaper on UA. for a non-elite with 1 or more bags on 1 or more legs it will be more. i know how that will up-sell plus all the inflight sales.
so for an elite, the RT fare on the selected time(s) is slightly cheaper on UA. for a non-elite with 1 or more bags on 1 or more legs it will be more. i know how that will up-sell plus all the inflight sales.
Dec 28, 2022, 7:13 pm
#100
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,148
The United price is reasonably priced at: $282 (Inclusive of 1 bag RT), WN's pricing reflects 2 checked bags..but lets assume the average flyer is 1 bag.
Southwest: Earlybird, this is seat selection essentially. So consider the comparison to be 9$+ [couldn't find exact pricing but it's dynamic based on route]. Wannagetaway plus is a product for those who are FFs.
To me that's a bit expensive. But without the F product, I'd reasonably consider WN's pricing to be inclusive of the early bird, at 252, that's still cheaper.
Southwest: Earlybird, this is seat selection essentially. So consider the comparison to be 9$+ [couldn't find exact pricing but it's dynamic based on route]. Wannagetaway plus is a product for those who are FFs.
To me that's a bit expensive. But without the F product, I'd reasonably consider WN's pricing to be inclusive of the early bird, at 252, that's still cheaper.
Dec 28, 2022, 7:35 pm
#101
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Denver, Colorado
Programs: IHG Spire, Hilton Honors Gold, Marriott Titanium, Mileage Plus Gold
Posts: 1,736
ok, so for $10 more you can return at 8:40 am. for the record, 5:40 am is still not 4am.
so for an elite, the RT fare on the selected time(s) is slightly cheaper on UA. for a non-elite with 1 or more bags on 1 or more legs it will be more. i know how that will up-sell plus all the inflight sales.
so for an elite, the RT fare on the selected time(s) is slightly cheaper on UA. for a non-elite with 1 or more bags on 1 or more legs it will be more. i know how that will up-sell plus all the inflight sales.
But back to the point of this thread. I'm sure all those Southwest passengers stuck all over the country right now are glad they didn't have to pay for their bags but stuck in a complete meltdown where they wont be rebooked until until the New Year nor currently know where their bags are.
It is for people with A-List status. Southwest used to board families after group A but before group B. Now they are going to experiment with moving them to before group A but allegedly enforce they can only sit behind the exit exit rows back of the plane. Good luck with FA's enforcing those rules. Say goodbye to exit row access. I can already see parents sitting in exit row and then putting their kids in the row behind or in front.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Dec 29, 2022 at 8:31 pm Reason: merged consecutive posts by same member; please use multi-quote
Dec 28, 2022, 7:48 pm
#102
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,164
I've been glad I don't fly WN ever since they started hiring failed standup comics as flight attendants and gate agents.
Dec 28, 2022, 8:12 pm
#103
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
Southwest is priced higher than United for most of my needs. I can pick a reasonable fare when I want to go instead of having to go at 4AM or 10PM to get the lowest fare on Southwest.
Just did a fare comparison for March 3 - 5 from DEN - LAX on both United and Southwest with similar departure times. All in prices are:
Southwest: $247.96 (Wanna Get Away Fare) Optionals: Early Bird for $20.00 each way for a total of $40.00; Wanna Get Away Plus for $41.00
United: $212.25 (Economy NOT Basic Economy)
.
Just did a fare comparison for March 3 - 5 from DEN - LAX on both United and Southwest with similar departure times. All in prices are:
Southwest: $247.96 (Wanna Get Away Fare) Optionals: Early Bird for $20.00 each way for a total of $40.00; Wanna Get Away Plus for $41.00
United: $212.25 (Economy NOT Basic Economy)
.
Go back and read all the posts above. The exact dates are all there. So are the explanations about the 4AM. If bags are so important to you, then by all means fly what works for you.
But back to the point of this thread. I'm sure all those Southwest passengers stuck all over the country right now are glad they didn't have to pay for their bags but stuck in a complete meltdown where they wont be rebooked until until the New Year nor currently know where their bags are.
But back to the point of this thread. I'm sure all those Southwest passengers stuck all over the country right now are glad they didn't have to pay for their bags but stuck in a complete meltdown where they wont be rebooked until until the New Year nor currently know where their bags are.
Also, i feel for the WN passengers as i've been through operational meltdowns myself courtesy UA and they are absolute misery. To just cr** on OAL is throwing stones from a glass house in some regard IMO. I think it's good to remember history and the risks in the system for all airlines and take some lessons/harden their systems.. it's not a problem until it's your problem so to speak.
Dec 28, 2022, 8:50 pm
#104
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC, LON
Programs: *
Posts: 2,793
I'm reading this post and did not see the words return date, round trip, duration, etc. round trip may have been implied but it was not explicit. i took it as a dates of departure to search through from 3-5 march from DEN-LAX since a round trip was not specified and it was such a short trip otherwise. I don't see the need to be so obtuse.
Dec 28, 2022, 10:00 pm
#105
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,148
It is for people with A-List status. Southwest used to board families after group A but before group B. Now they are going to experiment with moving them to before group A but allegedly enforce they can only sit behind the exit exit rows back of the plane. Good luck with FA's enforcing those rules. Say goodbye to exit row access. I can already see parents sitting in exit row and then putting their kids in the row behind or in front.