|
Originally Posted by fly18725
(Post 31064731)
An opinion has been established that MCAS “killed” 350 odd people and the 737 MAX is a fundamentally flawed product. It’s apparent that facts aren’t going to change that view, regardless of what the FAA concludes and how United chooses to return the aircraft to service. That’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinion. However, there are other participants in this forum that are interested in factual discussion, perhaps because we plan to fly on the MAX in the future. |
Originally Posted by DenverBrian
(Post 31063740)
I've never heard of a transponder being on or off resulting in a crash killing everyone on board.
Originally Posted by DenverBrian
(Post 31064708)
By providing two examples of the transponder per se NOT causing planes to fly into the ground, killing all aboard. @:-)
|
Originally Posted by mduell
(Post 31064768)
Ah, moving the goalposts.
|
"Boeing’s Own Test Pilots Lacked Key Details of 737 MAX Flight-Control System
A culture of close collaboration between test pilots, engineering staff deteriorated in later stages of aircraft’s development" https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeings...em-11556877600 It looked good on paper and in their minds. |
Originally Posted by mduell
(Post 31064768)
Ah, moving the goalposts.
|
Does the 737 Max have a lower landing speed than the 737 NG?
|
Originally Posted by BF263533
(Post 31066347)
Does the 737 Max have a lower landing speed than the 737 NG?
The 737 NGs that have the high landing speeds are the stretched 737-800 and 737-900. Landing speed is increased to provide additional tail clearance on these models. Full flaps is Flaps 40 and lowers the landing speed by 7-9 knots when used over a Flaps 30 landing. The problem is that there is an undesirable handling characteristic at Flaps 40 which causes the wings to rock back and forth a little bit. For that reason, Flaps 30 is normally used unless Flaps 40 is needed for the runway length or conditions. The MAX has fixed the wing-rocking problem so Flaps 40 is the normal landing flap setting which results in a lower landing speed. The MAX also does some tricks with the spoilers to that help keep the proper landing (pitch) attitude and maintain tail clearance. This further reduces the need to increase landing speed to provide tail clearance. I only have a couple of landings in the MAX but it felt very comfortable. It felt just like landing an NG at Flaps 30 except with a slower speed. No signs of the wing-rocking from the NG. |
Originally Posted by fly18725
(Post 31064731)
An opinion has been established that MCAS “killed” 350 odd people and the 737 MAX is a fundamentally flawed product. It’s apparent that facts aren’t going to change that view, regardless of what the FAA concludes and how United chooses to return the aircraft to service. That’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinion. However, there are other participants in this forum that are interested in factual discussion, perhaps because we plan to fly on the MAX in the future. |
Originally Posted by prestonh
(Post 31066740)
There's also an established opinion that the crew of the fatal ET flight put the aircraft into overspeed and reengaged the electric trim.
|
Originally Posted by fly18725
(Post 31066787)
You raise an interesting point and I must admit that my conclusion from various reports was that there was overspeed (perhaps oversight rather than intentional) and that the crew reengaged electric trim, which allowed MCAS to refire. Is that conclusion incorrect? |
The Ethiopian crew selected the "Level Change" mode shortly after takeoff. The selected altitude was above the aircraft's current altitude so the autothrottles went into "N1" mode which set, and maintained, Climb Power. IIRC, that was 91% N1. The power stayed at the high setting throughout the flight.
|
Originally Posted by LarryJ
(Post 31066643)
Yes.
The 737 NGs that have the high landing speeds are the stretched 737-800 and 737-900. Landing speed is increased to provide additional tail clearance on these models. Full flaps is Flaps 40 and lowers the landing speed by 7-9 knots when used over a Flaps 30 landing. The problem is that there is an undesirable handling characteristic at Flaps 40 which causes the wings to rock back and forth a little bit. For that reason, Flaps 30 is normally used unless Flaps 40 is needed for the runway length or conditions. The MAX has fixed the wing-rocking problem so Flaps 40 is the normal landing flap setting which results in a lower landing speed. The MAX also does some tricks with the spoilers to that help keep the proper landing (pitch) attitude and maintain tail clearance. This further reduces the need to increase landing speed to provide tail clearance. I only have a couple of landings in the MAX but it felt very comfortable. It felt just like landing an NG at Flaps 30 except with a slower speed. No signs of the wing-rocking from the NG. |
Originally Posted by BF263533
(Post 31067064)
So the 737MAX is less likely to overshoot the runway & go into the river like the 737-800 did in Jacksonville.
An Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration ET-ATV performing flight ET-338 (dep Jan 2nd) from Addis Ababa (Ethiopia) to Entebbe (Uganda) with 139 people on board, landed on Entebbe's runway 17 (length 12,000 feet/3,658 meters) at 00:38L (21:38Z Jan 2nd) but overran the end of the runway and came to a stop about 125 meters/400 feet past the runway end with all gear on soft ground. There were no injuries, the passengers disembarked via stairs onto soft ground and were taken to the terminal. The aircraft sustained minor if any damage. An American Airlines flight carrying more than 150 people skidded off a rain-slicked runway as it landed in Jamaica Tuesday night, hitting a fence and plowing into a sandy embankment before it came to rest a few feet from the Caribbean Sea. No one was killed in the accident, which knocked off the engines of the Boeing 737-800 and cracked its fuselage, but about 90 passengers were treated for minor injuries at hospitals around Jamaica’s capital, Kingston, according to a statement from Norman Manley International Airport. |
|
Originally Posted by BF263533
(Post 31067064)
So the 737MAX is less likely to overshoot the runway & go into the river like the 737-800 did in Jacksonville.
|
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 2:50 am. |
This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.