Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread -- the active thread is United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ...
Important Note: these fares became available 21 Feb 2017 for MSP for travel beginning 18 Apr 2017. More markets were added 19 April 2017 for travel starting 9 May 2017.
Related thread: Basic Economy Airport and Plane Experiences (First or Second Hand)
If you booked before the dates above, you did not have a BE fare. If purchased on united.com you will see a warning like:
4. MileagePlus members will earn full Premier qualifying dollars, 50% Premier qualifying miles and 0.5 Premier qualifying segments for each flight, as well as lifetime miles and toward the four-segment minimum.
Link to UA's description of how these fares will work: Basic Economy.
Here are the key facts:
related threads
New UA/*A TATL -LGT Economy fare - no free first bag, no changes/upgrades allowed
Benefit impact of restricted economy fares on UA Elites (Basic Econ, -LGT, Light Econ
Pre-announcement speculation thread (now closed) New "Budget Economy" fares
Important Note: these fares became available 21 Feb 2017 for MSP for travel beginning 18 Apr 2017. More markets were added 19 April 2017 for travel starting 9 May 2017.
Related thread: Basic Economy Airport and Plane Experiences (First or Second Hand)
If you booked before the dates above, you did not have a BE fare. If purchased on united.com you will see a warning like:
4. MileagePlus members will earn full Premier qualifying dollars, 50% Premier qualifying miles and 0.5 Premier qualifying segments for each flight, as well as lifetime miles and toward the four-segment minimum.
Link to UA's description of how these fares will work: Basic Economy.
Here are the key facts:
- No seat assignments until check-in. Seats will be assigned by the system and cannot be changed.*NEW* When purchasing a Basic Economy ticket, you will not receive a complimentary seat assignment but may be able to purchase advance seat assignments during booking and up until check-in opens. If you don’t purchase an advance seat assignment, your seat will be automatically assigned to you prior to boarding, and you won't be able to change your seat once it's been assigned.
- No guarantee of adjacent seats with companions
- No voluntary ticket changes after 24 hour purchase period
- Carry on limited to 1 personal item unless the customer is a MP Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card, or Star Alliance *G
- Customers ineligible for carry-on who bring one to the gate will be charged a $25 convenience fee to gate-check in addition to standard baggage fees (source: @united twitter)
- Customers will not be eligible for Economy Plus or premium cabin upgrades. This includes all forms of upgrades (CPU,supported or purchased). Likewise for E+ access (elite or purchased).
- Customers will board in the last boarding group (currently Group 5) unless the customer is a MP Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card, or Star Alliance *G
- Companions on same PNR will have same boarding group and carryon if one on the PNR has a waiver
- No combinability with regular economy fares or partner carriers. Interline travel is not permitted.
- Tickets will earn RDMs (based on fare and status), PQMs (50% of distance), PQSs (0.5), PQDs, in addition it will count for minimum 4 segment and lifetime miles (New as of Dec 2018)
- Basic Economy tickets will use booking code 'N'
- Online check-in only with paid checked bag, otherwise need to see a United representative to verify the onboard bag allowance and receive a boarding pass.
related threads
New UA/*A TATL -LGT Economy fare - no free first bag, no changes/upgrades allowed
Benefit impact of restricted economy fares on UA Elites (Basic Econ, -LGT, Light Econ
Pre-announcement speculation thread (now closed) New "Budget Economy" fares
United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ... {Archive}
#1276
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,419
#1277
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,466
#1278
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
United's fares - what shows up in searches such as on Google - will not allow (a) seat selection (b) the ability to bring a carry on bag unless it fits under the seat (premier and CC members excepted), (c) no upgrades to F or E+ (d) no PQM/PQD or lifetime miles (e) "Ticket changes are not allowed. This includes advanced changes and same-day changes, even for Premier members. Fares are nonrefundable"
In BE markets United is now Spirit-light; trying to upsell a bundle of benefits for (in this market, in the above example) $30 RT. That United is doing this nickle and dime game on what are relatively expensive fares ($370 one way in an M in the example above) is just flabbergasting to me.
#1279
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
There's a problem with your anecdotal experiences. You are not the typical Delta customer. Become a hub captive with them. Be a leisure passenger. You'll see E fares as commonplace, and they simply replaced the lowest fare levels, making every normal fare more expensive.
What UA is doing with their BE fares is very similar. The only difference I noticed at first was UA is trying for a larger price break, and in exchange you get even fewer perks.
The bottom line is this. Everything you're accusing UA of doing, DL did first. E fares on DL were nothing more than a way to increase revenue by creating more upsells. DL is the king of getting you to pay more for less. UA and AA have now copied it sadly.
What UA is doing with their BE fares is very similar. The only difference I noticed at first was UA is trying for a larger price break, and in exchange you get even fewer perks.
The bottom line is this. Everything you're accusing UA of doing, DL did first. E fares on DL were nothing more than a way to increase revenue by creating more upsells. DL is the king of getting you to pay more for less. UA and AA have now copied it sadly.
#1280
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
I am the customer Delta (and so they say United) wants. I pay real money to fly.... But your claims are directly contrary to what is going on. As I showed, using the same 5/25 date another poster looked at, Delta is ONLY doing BE fares on flights with the lowest fare catigories, United is doing it on ALL flights in the market. Unless I get offered the $64 fare, I don't see BE on flights on DL, I just get regular Y. On UA I get BE on every fare, and then United tries to sell me a $15 upsell (or $5 on the $370 fare). Very, Very different both in what it represents (unbundling on all fares by UA) and how it looks and I think will feel to travelers.
WN has lived for years with BS and Anytime fares almost identical. Finding two fares that UA clearly doesn't want to sell yet among dozens and dozens of flights isn't going to make a difference to anyone.
For another example of you complaining about something DL did first and is worse, you just mentioned that UA's BE fare will show up on Google searches. Uh, that was the case from day 1 with DL's E fares, except Google search doesn't let you know about it until you click the link to book it. Very annoying to think DL is the low or same price when it really isn't. One of my biggest gripes with BE is it ruins Google search.
#1281
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: LBB
Programs: UA 1K 1MM ★G | Marriott LTT | Hilton ♦ | Hertz PC | Global Entry TSA Pre ✓
Posts: 2,820
My claims are accurate. I've been shopping with DL's E fares commonly available for quite a while now. I think it's great that UA is allowing BE onto more fare classes. It creates more customer choices. It's frustrating to want to go as cheaply as possible on DL and having the E fare wiped out on all but the cheapest flights.
WN has lived for years with BS and Anytime fares almost identical. Finding two fares that UA clearly doesn't want to sell yet among dozens and dozens of flights isn't going to make a difference to anyone.
For another example of you complaining about something DL did first and is worse, you just mentioned that UA's BE fare will show up on Google searches. Uh, that was the case from day 1 with DL's E fares, except Google search doesn't let you know about it until you click the link to book it. Very annoying to think DL is the low or same price when it really isn't. One of my biggest gripes with BE is it ruins Google search.
WN has lived for years with BS and Anytime fares almost identical. Finding two fares that UA clearly doesn't want to sell yet among dozens and dozens of flights isn't going to make a difference to anyone.
For another example of you complaining about something DL did first and is worse, you just mentioned that UA's BE fare will show up on Google searches. Uh, that was the case from day 1 with DL's E fares, except Google search doesn't let you know about it until you click the link to book it. Very annoying to think DL is the low or same price when it really isn't. One of my biggest gripes with BE is it ruins Google search.
#1282
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
As to why? Well many (and I would say most) travelers are willing to look at multiple airlines, and one stop is always better. On a domestic leg (E.g. I have to go SFO-PHL-SFO in about three weeks) I will usually just look at the airline's web-sites, but that is because I know the networks well (so I look at DL, UA, and AA in this case). But most people don't know, so go to a third party site.
But as to fares on international flights, IMHE the airline web-sites are often more expensive. For example, we are going this week SFO-MUC-SFO. Had I just looked at UA.com I would have paid $500 more per ticket, and $400 more if I just looked at LH, but buying from a third party site (ticket as LH) I got the exact same routing, and saved $1600. The last place I would ever check first is UA.com
#1283
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: MSP/ORD
Programs: UA 1MM/GS, Marriott Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 318
It's meaningless to choose a date at random, apply current inventory, and draw conclusions about market positioning. Carriers match fares much more closely than that, so you're almost certainly seeing tighter inventory on the UA flight.
Now, you might correctly say they're foolish to demand a higher fare, but I think you need to keep separate inventory management and fare filing. On a micro-scale they're handled by different algorithms and different people.
I picked another day at random.. and guess what? NK offers $40 one-ways and you know who the only carrier is to match them? UA (with an N fare). The rest of the day's flights are interspersed in a varying order.
The patently absurd thing UA is doing is selling N fares that are matched to high fares. They're simply not competing with NK or taking people home to visit grandma when they're selling an E or M basis. The market for those fares is simply not going to defect to a ULCC, and it's just an insult to the brand and optics to peddle an N fare up that high, especially for a $5 differential.
Now, you might correctly say they're foolish to demand a higher fare, but I think you need to keep separate inventory management and fare filing. On a micro-scale they're handled by different algorithms and different people.
I picked another day at random.. and guess what? NK offers $40 one-ways and you know who the only carrier is to match them? UA (with an N fare). The rest of the day's flights are interspersed in a varying order.
The patently absurd thing UA is doing is selling N fares that are matched to high fares. They're simply not competing with NK or taking people home to visit grandma when they're selling an E or M basis. The market for those fares is simply not going to defect to a ULCC, and it's just an insult to the brand and optics to peddle an N fare up that high, especially for a $5 differential.
In recent months there have often been G fares available for $38-$40 one-way, albeit only at undesirable times (e.g., 5:20am).
But now, it looks like the $40 fare is N, and they've raised the normal G where available to $55.
That supports the "BE is a pure rate hike" theory shared by many posters, FWIW.
#1284
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
Searching all airlines at once is the number 1 reason I do it. The 2nd is that Google Flights is so much easier to search with than the others. I'll go to the actual website when I want to book, but if I'm price shopping, my first stop is Google.
#1285
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,419
I fly ORD-MSP a lot, on my own money, so for a layman I am unusually attuned to what UA's pricing practices have been on this route.
In recent months there have often been G fares available for $38-$40 one-way, albeit only at undesirable times (e.g., 5:20am).
But now, it looks like the $40 fare is N, and they've raised the normal G where available to $55.
That supports the "BE is a pure rate hike" theory shared by many posters, FWIW.
In recent months there have often been G fares available for $38-$40 one-way, albeit only at undesirable times (e.g., 5:20am).
But now, it looks like the $40 fare is N, and they've raised the normal G where available to $55.
That supports the "BE is a pure rate hike" theory shared by many posters, FWIW.
#1286
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: MSP/ORD
Programs: UA 1MM/GS, Marriott Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 318
Well, if and when I see a G fare in the $35-40 range, presumably with an accompanying N fare in the $20-25 range, I'll be sure to post about it. Until then, I'll continue to believe that UA has raised their de facto floor for non-BE pricing on MSP-ORD from ~$40 to ~$55.
#1287
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,775
You can't buy a ticket on Google flights. When you click "book it", it takes you to the airline's website. That's been my experience every time I've used it.
#1288
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,063
My claims are accurate. I've been shopping with DL's E fares commonly available for quite a while now. I think it's great that UA is allowing BE onto more fare classes. It creates more customer choices. It's frustrating to want to go as cheaply as possible on DL and having the E fare wiped out on all but the cheapest flights.
WN has lived for years with BS and Anytime fares almost identical. Finding two fares that UA clearly doesn't want to sell yet among dozens and dozens of flights isn't going to make a difference to anyone.
For another example of you complaining about something DL did first and is worse, you just mentioned that UA's BE fare will show up on Google searches. Uh, that was the case from day 1 with DL's E fares, except Google search doesn't let you know about it until you click the link to book it. Very annoying to think DL is the low or same price when it really isn't. One of my biggest gripes with BE is it ruins Google search.
WN has lived for years with BS and Anytime fares almost identical. Finding two fares that UA clearly doesn't want to sell yet among dozens and dozens of flights isn't going to make a difference to anyone.
For another example of you complaining about something DL did first and is worse, you just mentioned that UA's BE fare will show up on Google searches. Uh, that was the case from day 1 with DL's E fares, except Google search doesn't let you know about it until you click the link to book it. Very annoying to think DL is the low or same price when it really isn't. One of my biggest gripes with BE is it ruins Google search.
#1289
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
spin88 is correct and UA is doing it very differently than DL. It's pretty clear you don't understand what he is saying. DL only sells BE fares with an X, V basis from what I've seen and they almost all have advance purchase requirements as well as min stay/RT purchase depending on markets. Once you get into the LUT and higher fare classes, either due to close-in purchase, lack of X/V inventory, not meeting min stay, etc. there are no BE fares and only Main Cabin fares on DL. In many cases, DL BE fares are not seen by business travelers because they buy shorter notice, buy one-way's, etc. UA is different in that they have BE fares corresponding to the higher fare classes and not just lowest two classes. DL does this with C+ fares, but not with BE fares.
#1290
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: WAS-ish
Programs: UA 1K-MM + UC, Marriott Plat, National Exec
Posts: 1,341
Spin's initial complaint and erroneous charge was that UA was only using BE as a "bait-and-switch" up-charge mechanism, and that DL did not do that. That is simply wrong. DL's E fare is used for the exact same purpose, and it has been since day 1 (I've been affected by since the beginning). The only significant differences I see between the two, which I mention, is that in this test period UA is initially using them on more fares (a good thing for consumers), and has a different fare difference/lost amenities model. The reason behind their creation is the same for both airlines.
On the other hand, if you're a business traveler booking 15 days out, then (probably) the programs look very different:
1. Looking at DL, you only see regular economy fares; no sign of BE.
2. United is still offering BE slightly below the (relatively high) regular economy fare.
Whether you see the existence of either carrier's BE fares as good/bad/indifferent really depends on your specific travel patterns. If you are booking with your own money (leisure or self-employed), then the availability of BE is generally good; it gives you options. You might not use them, but ... hey, freedom to choose! Now, UA also seems to have used this as an excuse for a price increase on the cheapest full-benefits fares, but that's a separate issue (though deceptive).
But if you're a business traveler on OPM, constrained to a corporate TA booking procedure, BE's existence stinks, because you may not have the freedom not to choose it. I'm in this category, and I really dislike the UA model because DL's model generally doesn't offer BE to me and I do not want to have it offered to me because then I might be forced to choose it. Fortunately, my corporate TA is blocking them, but this could change on a whim.
I agree that UA and DL are equally guilty of using this as a "bait-and-switch" -- it's not entirely bait-and-switch, since some people will choose to unbundle, but clearly the airlines want to upsell -- but by implementing the fare structure differently, they've chosen to market that product to different audiences.