Feb 9, 2019, 5:12 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread -- the active thread is United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ...
Important Note: these fares became available 21 Feb 2017 for MSP for travel beginning 18 Apr 2017. More markets were added 19 April 2017 for travel starting 9 May 2017.
Related thread: Basic Economy Airport and Plane Experiences (First or Second Hand)
If you booked before the dates above, you did not have a BE fare. If purchased on united.com you will see a warning like:
4. MileagePlus members will earn full Premier qualifying dollars, 50% Premier qualifying miles and 0.5 Premier qualifying segments for each flight, as well as lifetime miles and toward the four-segment minimum.
Link to UA's description of how these fares will work: Basic Economy.
Here are the key facts:
related threads
New UA/*A TATL -LGT Economy fare - no free first bag, no changes/upgrades allowed
Benefit impact of restricted economy fares on UA Elites (Basic Econ, -LGT, Light Econ
Pre-announcement speculation thread (now closed) New "Budget Economy" fares
Important Note: these fares became available 21 Feb 2017 for MSP for travel beginning 18 Apr 2017. More markets were added 19 April 2017 for travel starting 9 May 2017.
Related thread: Basic Economy Airport and Plane Experiences (First or Second Hand)
If you booked before the dates above, you did not have a BE fare. If purchased on united.com you will see a warning like:
4. MileagePlus members will earn full Premier qualifying dollars, 50% Premier qualifying miles and 0.5 Premier qualifying segments for each flight, as well as lifetime miles and toward the four-segment minimum.
Link to UA's description of how these fares will work: Basic Economy.
Here are the key facts:
- No seat assignments until check-in. Seats will be assigned by the system and cannot be changed.*NEW* When purchasing a Basic Economy ticket, you will not receive a complimentary seat assignment but may be able to purchase advance seat assignments during booking and up until check-in opens. If you don’t purchase an advance seat assignment, your seat will be automatically assigned to you prior to boarding, and you won't be able to change your seat once it's been assigned.
- No guarantee of adjacent seats with companions
- No voluntary ticket changes after 24 hour purchase period
- Carry on limited to 1 personal item unless the customer is a MP Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card, or Star Alliance *G
- Customers ineligible for carry-on who bring one to the gate will be charged a $25 convenience fee to gate-check in addition to standard baggage fees (source: @united twitter)
- Customers will not be eligible for Economy Plus or premium cabin upgrades. This includes all forms of upgrades (CPU,supported or purchased). Likewise for E+ access (elite or purchased).
- Customers will board in the last boarding group (currently Group 5) unless the customer is a MP Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card, or Star Alliance *G
- Companions on same PNR will have same boarding group and carryon if one on the PNR has a waiver
- No combinability with regular economy fares or partner carriers. Interline travel is not permitted.
- Tickets will earn RDMs (based on fare and status), PQMs (50% of distance), PQSs (0.5), PQDs, in addition it will count for minimum 4 segment and lifetime miles (New as of Dec 2018)
- Basic Economy tickets will use booking code 'N'
- Online check-in only with paid checked bag, otherwise need to see a United representative to verify the onboard bag allowance and receive a boarding pass.
related threads
New UA/*A TATL -LGT Economy fare - no free first bag, no changes/upgrades allowed
Benefit impact of restricted economy fares on UA Elites (Basic Econ, -LGT, Light Econ
Pre-announcement speculation thread (now closed) New "Budget Economy" fares
United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ... {Archive}
May 9, 2017, 1:27 pm
#1561
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LHR (sometimes CLE, SFO, BOS, LAX, SEA)
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 5,895
I realize this will seem terribly obvious and boring -- and un-scandalous -- to a lot of FTers. After all, the airline is simply taking advantage of its market power to maximize profit.
But I find something striking about being able to so clearly and undeniably prove the lie of the airlines' claim that their race to the bottom is simply about giving passengers "choices" or "what they want." Yes, passengers like low fares. But none of them asked to get far less tomorrow than what they'd get for the same price today.
But I find something striking about being able to so clearly and undeniably prove the lie of the airlines' claim that their race to the bottom is simply about giving passengers "choices" or "what they want." Yes, passengers like low fares. But none of them asked to get far less tomorrow than what they'd get for the same price today.
Subject: Actions Speak Louder than Words.
Dear [your name],
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when we removed the lowest-priced tickets from markets one by one and replaced them with "basic economy" fares which provide a worse experience for the same price. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that when we publish basic economy fares, we will lower the price.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will provide refunds to customers who bought a basic-economy fare that was priced the same as the lowest published economy fare with a new "no-questions-asked" $15 refund. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
[name]
CEO
United Airlines
Dear [your name],
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when we removed the lowest-priced tickets from markets one by one and replaced them with "basic economy" fares which provide a worse experience for the same price. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that when we publish basic economy fares, we will lower the price.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will provide refunds to customers who bought a basic-economy fare that was priced the same as the lowest published economy fare with a new "no-questions-asked" $15 refund. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
[name]
CEO
United Airlines
May 9, 2017, 1:32 pm
#1562
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 13,811
There is no baseline on the airfares (before/after BE). So I agree that while you can claim there is a $15 surcharge for elite benefit relatively, there is no absolute evidence showing that $15 has been imposed in addition because of BE.
May 9, 2017, 1:35 pm
#1563
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,417
There absolutely are several examples in the thread. It seems to vary by market, but is a fare increase in most cases. Historical fare information is available via services like ExpertFlyer if you'd like to see for yourself; just check before and after the day that the BE fares were filed.
May 9, 2017, 2:03 pm
#1564
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
Simply not conclusive enough.
I understand. Still I am not convinced.
There is no baseline on the airfares (before/after BE). So I agree that while you can claim there is a $15 surcharge for elite benefit relatively, there is no absolute evidence showing that $15 has been imposed in addition because of BE.
I understand. Still I am not convinced.
There is no baseline on the airfares (before/after BE). So I agree that while you can claim there is a $15 surcharge for elite benefit relatively, there is no absolute evidence showing that $15 has been imposed in addition because of BE.
We all understand you can't prove a fare increase by looking at an airline's web site. You can only provide anecdotal evidence that supports UA's public statements. This is a fare increase, period.
May 9, 2017, 2:13 pm
#1565
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,423
In some markets BE has been a discount instead, but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Also, for expensive fares, UA is consistently matching its direct competition N-for-Y (or equivalently pricing higher for the same product).
Now, a $15 price move is not much in the grand scheme of things. But a consistent $15 difference between UA and OAL on a head-to-head route, that could be significant. But I have to agree with jsloan - either AA/DL will match UA's BE offering or I think UA will eventually be forced to retreat. They already backed off on refundable fares.
May 9, 2017, 3:21 pm
#1566
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
We must remember that the market for airfares is transparent and dynamic. If customers are not willing to pay more to fly on United, then the fare increase will not stick. Since most of the higher fares being discussed are for SFO-originating itineraries, I think it is safe to say the fares may stick around. If you look at itineraries originating out of cities where United does not have a strong market position, you'll see the E fares are lower than the dominant airlines.
May 9, 2017, 4:06 pm
#1567
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: Marriott Ti/LTP
Posts: 1,329
It is difficult, perhaps even absurd, to try and equate a fare increase with the biggest takeaway of elite benefits.
We must remember that the market for airfares is transparent and dynamic. If customers are not willing to pay more to fly on United, then the fare increase will not stick. Since most of the higher fares being discussed are for SFO-originating itineraries, I think it is safe to say the fares may stick around. If you look at itineraries originating out of cities where United does not have a strong market position, you'll see the E fares are lower than the dominant airlines.
We must remember that the market for airfares is transparent and dynamic. If customers are not willing to pay more to fly on United, then the fare increase will not stick. Since most of the higher fares being discussed are for SFO-originating itineraries, I think it is safe to say the fares may stick around. If you look at itineraries originating out of cities where United does not have a strong market position, you'll see the E fares are lower than the dominant airlines.
My corporate policy is to book the lowest non-BE fare, regardless of airline. UA is no longer a realistic choice for me - which sucks.
May 9, 2017, 4:26 pm
#1568
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
Between SFO-DFW, a route that I've flow over 30 times in the past 1.5 years, the fares have gone up compared to AA. Before BE/this week, AA and UA are always the same price through Concur, unless a flight is selling out. Now, UA is significantly more expensive, as they are matching their BE fare to the regular AA fare, and Concur is setup to not show the BE fare.
My corporate policy is to book the lowest non-BE fare, regardless of airline. UA is no longer a realistic choice for me - which sucks.
My corporate policy is to book the lowest non-BE fare, regardless of airline. UA is no longer a realistic choice for me - which sucks.
May 9, 2017, 4:34 pm
#1569
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hiding under the trees in Denver, CO
Programs: UA 1K 2.5MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium Elite, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 4,306
In the hands of third party booking agencies, though, Basic Economy is increasingly presented as the New Normal. I was searching ORD-YVR last night on Kayak, and the price-driven returns were BE-centric, with regular (E-) coach seats positioned as an upgrade for X dollars more, and E+ as a next-tier upgrade for 2X dollars more.
If that's all this is, I wonder why they bother? My anecdotal evidence of 40+ business trips per year suggests that fares have been inching up for years, commensurate with market conditions, without this Basic Economy nonsense.
May 9, 2017, 4:48 pm
#1570
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: SFO
Programs: OZ Diamond/*G, IHG Diamond Amb, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,240
It will credit as N class. The "first letter of the fare basis" is more convention than anything else. It's the fare class that's provided to the program you're trying to credit.
I would imagine most, if not all, *A programs have been updated to disallow PQM on N fares; no idea about RDM, but I'd expect little.
I would imagine most, if not all, *A programs have been updated to disallow PQM on N fares; no idea about RDM, but I'd expect little.
http://www.wheretocredit.com/united-airlines/n
May 9, 2017, 5:03 pm
#1571
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,417
Actually lots of programs still give PQMs for N fares (at 50%).
http://www.wheretocredit.com/united-airlines/n
http://www.wheretocredit.com/united-airlines/n
Expect the list of crediting carriers to shrink as UA is able to renegotiate their agreements, but definitely feel free to take advantage in the interim.
May 9, 2017, 6:08 pm
#1572
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
Because it's a fare increase that's disguised as a new product, and it makes it more difficult for the average customer to discern. Over your 40+ years, I'm sure you've seen different versions of either charging more or taking something away. A simple example is when airlines started charging for bags, but didn't implement a direct fare decrease. If this were a base fare increase (instead of $0 with a new N fare), it would give DL, AA, and WN an advantage if they decided not to match it. This way they don't have to match, and UA still shows up in price searches.
May 9, 2017, 7:48 pm
#1574
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
The point: trying to draw broad conclusions about pricing strategy based on searches from one city is intellectual dishonest.
May 9, 2017, 10:20 pm
#1575
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 5,577
search on Google Flights :
UA is more expensive out of DFW to SFO :
¥73,746–¥74,383
round trip
10 similar flights
American
from 3h 45m
DFW-SFO
Nonstop
6AM
9AM
12PM
3PM
6PM
9PM
12AM
¥81,970
round trip
3 similar flights
United · Skywest DBA United Express
from 3h 57m
DFW-SFO
Nonstop
6AM
9AM
12PM
3PM
6PM
9PM
12AM
And UA is more expensive SFO-DFW :
¥74,383
round trip
10 similar flights
American
from 3h 23m
SFO-DFW
Nonstop
12AM
3AM
6AM
9AM
12PM
3PM
6PM
9PM
¥81,970
round trip
2 similar flights
United · Skywest DBA United Express
from 3h 23m
SFO-DFW
Nonstop
12AM
3AM
6AM
9AM
12PM
3PM
6PM
9PM
¥99,235–¥101,590
round trip
2 similar flights
United · Skywest DBA United Express
from 3h 33m
SFO-DFW
Nonstop
12AM
3AM
6AM
9AM
12PM
3PM
6PM
9PM
'nuff said.