Feb 21, 2017, 2:36 pm

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Last edit by: cesco.g

Current 77W Routes:
SFO/HKG (UA 862/869) Started 25MAR17
EWR/TLV (UA 90/91) Started 5MAY17
SFO/NRT (UA 837/838) Started 14JUN17
SFO/TPE (UA 871/872) Started 1AUG17
SFO/FRA (UA 58/59) Started 5OCT17
EWR/NRT (UA 79/78) Started 28OCT17
SFO/AKL (UA 916/917) Resumes seasonal service 27OCT18 - 29MAR19 (non-seasonal 3x weekly service operated by 772)
SFO/LHR (UA 901/949) Started 23APR18, ends 26OCT18, resumes 30MAR19
SFO/TLV (UA 954/955) Started 23MAY18
EWR/BOM (UA 48/49) Started 27OCT18
EWR/HKG (UA 179/180) Started 30MAR19

Current Non-77W routes
772 Retrofit:
EWR/BRU (UA 999/998) Started 30MAR19
EWR/CDG (UA 57/56) Started 30MAR19
IAD/BRU (UA 950/951) Started 30MAR19
IAD/CDG (UA 915/914) Starts 29APR19
IAD/TLV (UA 72/73) Starts 22MAY19, 3x weekly
SFO/PEK (UA 888/889) Started 30MAR19
SFO/FRA (UA 926/927) Started 30MAR19
SFO/CDG (UA 990/984) Starts 29APR19
SFO/ICN (UA 805/806) Started 1APR19, 4x weekly
SFO/AKL (UA 916/917) Started off-season service 30MAR19, 3x weekly

Past routes:
EWR/FRA (UA 960/961) 24MAR18 - 31JUL18 (now operated by 78J)
SFO/EWR (various), currently operated by 752, 78J, 77G

United 77x Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris Seats

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Jan 25, 2018, 6:55 am

#616

UA Apologist

Join Date: Feb 2015

Posts: 172

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kacee

Seat layout is not "seating configuration" within the meaning of the CoC. They are talking about a materially different type of seat, e.g., lie-flat to recliner.

Is there any language in the Contract of Carriage to support your interpretation?

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jan 25, 2018 at 11:17 am Reason: discuss the issue; not the poster(s)

Jan 25, 2018, 9:34 am

#617

laxmillenial

Join Date: Jan 2016

Programs: UA 1K; *G, AA Plat

Posts: 1,700

Quote:

Originally Posted by UA Apologist

Is there any language in the Contract of Carriage to support your interpretation?

It's been stated below what the CoC says verbatim. It doesn't state a lot.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jan 25, 2018 at 11:18 am Reason: quote updated to reflect Moderator edit; response to deleted material removed

Jan 25, 2018, 10:07 am

#618

EWR764

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: New York, NY

Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott

Posts: 9,452

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerTalkUserName

Is everyone looking at the same CoC? I believe AA (I know, it's not UA) allows for a refund due to equipment swap on international itineraries, but not domestic. Also I think it's in the "International Tariff" and not the CoC itself.

United's International Tariff (for purposes of filing with the ATPCO) is the Contract of Carriage.

Below is United's definition of irregular operations:

Quote:

Irregular Operations – any of the following irregularities:
1. Delay in scheduled departure or arrival of a carrier’s flight resulting in a Misconnection;
2. Flight or service cancellation, omission of a scheduled stop, or any other delay or interruption in the scheduled operation of a carrier’s flight;
3. Substitution of aircraft type that provides different classes of service or different seat configurations;
4. Schedule changes which require Rerouting of Passengers at departure time of the original flight; or
5. Cancellation of a reservation by UA pursuant to Rule 5.
EXCEPTION: UA shall have no obligation to honor another carrier’s ticket that does not reflect a confirmed reservation on UA, unless the issuing carrier reissues the ticket for any changes in routing. In the event such carrier is not available to do so, UA reserves the right to reroute passengers only over its own lines between the points named on the original ticket.

I have emphasized the section to which you refer. However, this section is merely a definition, and United sets forth its obligations in irregular operations below, which unfortunately do not involve moving you to another flight if the only issue is an aircraft change.

Quote:

Irregular Operations

Liability - Except to the extent provided in this Rule and the Warsaw and/or Montreal Conventions, UA shall not be liable for any Irregular Operations.
Delay, Misconnection or Cancellation
1. When a Passenger’s ticket is affected because of Irregular Operations caused by UA, UA will take the following measures:
  1. Transport the Passenger on its own flights, subject to availability, to the Destination, next Stopover point, or transfer point shown on its portion of the Ticket, without Stopover in the same class of service, at no additional cost to the Passenger; or
  2. At its sole discretion, UA may arrange for the passenger to travel on another carrier. United may also, at its sole discretion, and if acceptable to the passenger, arrange for the passenger to travel via ground transportation.
2. In the event a Passenger misses an onward connecting flight on which space is reserved because the Delivering Carrier did not operate its flight due to Irregular Operations or a Schedule Change, the Delivering Carrier is responsible to arrange for carriage of the Passenger or to make a refund.
If a Passenger is not transported as provided in E) 2) above, the Passenger will be eligible for a refund upon request. See Rule 27 A).
If space is only available and used on a UA flight(s) of a lower class of service than originally purchased by the passenger, UA will provide a refund of the difference in fare pursuant to Rule 27 C) 5).

Based on that, the only way the change in configuration affirmatively gives rise to an obligation to re-accommodate on United's part, is where said change results in a delay, misconnection or cancellation OR the passenger is being accommodated in a lower class of service than originally purchased.

In other words, while the definition of irregular operations gives some hope, it does not lead to a duty on United's part to re-accommodate a passenger stuck with a configuration change unless there is an accompanying delay, misconnection, cancellation or class of service downgrade. However, that does not, nor has it ever, stopped a sympathetic agent from waiving a change fee as a gesture of goodwill to make a passenger happy. In such a case, especially on a domestic, non premium transcon route, I'd approach it as asking for a favor, rather than seeking an entitlement, and you might get what you're looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelingman79

Unacceptable equipment change. 4-across with direct aisle access to 8-across without.

UA does list "changes to type of aircraft" as a type of schedule change per https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...le-change.aspx.

Though it's not a change to the arrival or departure time, it is a schedule change that could be unacceptable to a passenger.

In the CoC, UA also clearly distinguishes Schedule Changes from Irregular Operations and does not include language relative to configuration changes in its Schedule Change definition. This is one area (and there are others) in which the language of United's website actually differs from the Contract of Carriage. Given the fact that the CoC controls, I think it's a little misleading and creates ambiguity. Nevertheless, here is the COC definition of Schedule Change:

Quote:

Schedule Change – an advance change in UA’s schedule (including a change in operating carrier or itinerary) that is not a unique event such as Irregular Operations or Force Majeure Event as defined below.

which relates to the following obligations, triggered by the conditions in bold/underline:

Quote:

Schedule Change- When a Passenger’s Ticketed flight is affected because of a Schedule Change that modifies the original departure and/or arrival time by 30 minutes or more, UA will, at its election, arrange one of the following:

Provided that the dates of departure and arrival must be within 7 days of the originally scheduled dates of departure and arrival, respectively, transport the Passenger on its own flights, subject to availability, to the Destination, next Stopover point, or transfer point shown on its portion of the Ticket, without Stopover in the same class of service, at no additional cost to the Passenger;
When a Schedule Change results in the cancellation of all UA service between two cities, at UA’s sole discretion, UA may reroute Passengers over the lines of one or more carriers in an equivalent class of service;
Advise the Passenger that the value of his or her Ticket may be applied toward future travel on United within one year from the date of issue without a change or reissue fee; or
If the Passenger is not transported as provided in C) 1) or 2) above and does not choose to apply the value of his or her Ticket toward future travel as provided in C) 3) above, the Passenger will be eligible for a refund upon request. See Rule 27 A).

While one may be inclined to argue that a Schedule Change encompasses a change in aircraft type, (due to the language of the page posted by travelingman79 above) per the CoC, absent the 30 minute change in departure/arrival time versus the originally-ticketed itinerary, an aircraft change by itself does not give rise to an obligation for United to re-accommodate the affected passenger.

In that case I would again approach the change as asking for a courtesy, rather than demanding an entitlement, because United has a pretty strong argument against it if the agent isn't willing to help right off the bat.

Kacee likes this.

Last edited by EWR764; Jan 25, 2018 at 10:29 am

Feb 8, 2018, 10:42 pm

#619

Mike Kuhner

Join Date: Feb 2018

Posts: 1

UA 58 SFO-FRA going to back non-polaris?

I'm trying to book UA58 SFO-FRA in early 2019. While this is currently flying the 777-300 Polaris, it appears around November 2018 the seat maps revert back to the 2x4x2 business class of the 777-200. Does anyone know if this is legit or a mistake? Is UA actually pulling this plane from flight 58 in the winter of next year and sticking back an older 777-200? Or did they just not update all their future seat maps...

Feb 9, 2018, 12:23 am

#620

warrenw

Join Date: Dec 2015

Location: Seoul

Programs: None anymore

Posts: 983

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Kuhner

I believe they are still deciding what to do and the -200 is a placeholder.

Feb 13, 2018, 4:31 pm

#621

tstauck

Join Date: Oct 2016

Location: SBA

Programs: UA Gold 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hertz PC

Posts: 941

Hi Everyone - Is there a list or thread anywhere that shows the domestic routes the 777-300 is flying? I know they were doing SFO-EWR for some time, but looks like that has stopped now.
Thanks!

Feb 13, 2018, 4:32 pm

#622

PsiFighter37

Join Date: Mar 2015

Location: NYC (Primarily EWR)

Programs: UA 1K / *G, Marriott Bonvoy Gold; Avis PC

Posts: 9,005

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstauck

Hi Everyone - Is there a list or thread anywhere that shows the domestic routes the 777-300 is flying? I know they were doing SFO-EWR for some time, but looks like that has stopped now.
Thanks!

No domestic routes currently. They are getting new 77Ws this year, so it may make a reappearance as new planes roll off the line.

Feb 13, 2018, 4:33 pm

#623

hirohito888

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: NYC

Programs: UA-1K MM, AA-Gold, DL-Silver, AS-MVP

Posts: 2,508

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstauck

Hi Everyone - Is there a list or thread anywhere that shows the domestic routes the 777-300 is flying? I know they were doing SFO-EWR for some time, but looks like that has stopped now.
Thanks!

This is the thread for 77W routes. And there are none flying domestic. Planes are rotated in NRT (and possibly TLV, when SFO-TLV starts).

Feb 13, 2018, 11:36 pm

#624

tstauck

Join Date: Oct 2016

Location: SBA

Programs: UA Gold 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hertz PC

Posts: 941

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsiFighter37

No domestic routes currently. They are getting new 77Ws this year, so it may make a reappearance as new planes roll off the line.

thanks and I’ll keep an eye out then. Saw 1st for $659 in the past , didn’t have a chance to catch it back then!

Feb 15, 2018, 6:57 pm

#625

EmailKid

Moderator: Budget Travel forum & Credit Card Programs, FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Aug 2002

Location: YYJ/YVR and back on Van Isle ....... for now

Programs: UA lifetime MM / *A Gold

Posts: 14,429

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstauck

thanks and I’ll keep an eye out then. Saw 1st for $659 in the past , didn’t have a chance to catch it back then!

Other than hub to hub repositioning fights and IRROPs, I don't see 77W on domestic routes, they save those for high density -200s.

Mar 4, 2018, 12:21 am

#626

phkc070408

Join Date: Jan 2013

Location: Delaware

Programs: UA Mileage Plus, Amtrak Guest Rewards

Posts: 1,393

I guess the SFO-TLV route will be used by some of the "final 4." I would think that 2 planes could be used for that route. I wonder if we'll get one more dedicated route?

Mar 5, 2018, 12:19 pm

#627

N104UA

Join Date: Nov 2014

Programs: UA 2MM

Posts: 1,679

Quote:

Originally Posted by phkc070408

I guess the SFO-TLV route will be used by some of the "final 4." I would think that 2 planes could be used for that route. I wonder if we'll get one more dedicated route?

They might not have to use 2 for TLV, they may be able to do 3 for 2 routes (i.e. SFO-NRT-SFO-TLV-SFO)

ContinentalFan and chermorg like this.