cerealmarketer

Yes.

No direct aisle access from the windows + a middle seat in the mid section = 2 strikes.

Etihad has a better business seat on its 777s than Emirates, hands down.

And they fit exactly 28 seats in J on a 773.

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Eti..._777-300ER.php

We're getting a newer version of this from United.

We're talking 777 configs here, not A380s.

sbm12

But EK's product is 2-3-2 without direct aisle access. What about that is "nice" in this context?

But if you want nonstop to Asia from NYC the comparison is MU, CX, KE, JL, NH and OZ, right? To Europe would be VS, AF, KL, LH, BA, IB, LO, OS, AZ and a couple others.

Most (especially on the Europe side) do not have fully flat, direct aisle access in C. Some which do offer it in a staggered layout similar to this one.

Are you suggesting that UA doesn't have a similar fleet of analysts working the numbers? Perhaps the difference is in markets served and consumer expectations/demand versus analyst numbers or skills??

Well, that and direct aisle access. Those are the two main demands seen over and over again. They are not everything to everyone, but they are the most significant most often.

artvandalay

Exactly. This cabin has Smisek written all over it: "How many people can you cram in this much space?"

Funny, so many have commented previously when defending the value of UA's GF over BF that it's about more space. If true, then once GF is kaput, this new product will surely motivate those folks to spend their money on other carriers--BR, for example--whose 1-2-1 business cabins seem much more spacious.

kevanyalowitz

Exactly. If this were replacing J on a 3-cabin plane I wouldnt have anything negative to say. Sure, it's better than the EK J seat. But EK has F. This product is great for upgrades and P fare flyers, but doesn't satisfy high yield pax that do pay more for a civilized amount of space. This is not at all surprising of course given that this is classic Smisek - check the boxes (flat bed, 'all aisle access') and then crank up the spin machine.

The GS out there hoping for something better were foolish, myself included.

bmwe92fan

I still hold out hope that this isn't the final product - but if it is I will give it a shot - I just flew a few flights in J on SQ and had forgotten how amazing it is - yes you have to fold down the seat to make it a bed but it is SO wide and comfortable - really was hoping UA would do something similar and really go after Premium flyers - I really think that the US market would support and reward a premium product - apparently UA doesn't....

TerryK

Looks terrible to me. 2-4-2 is like BA layout from the 90s. Narrow and uncomfortable.

Michael D

The writing has been on the wall for a long time regarding GF.

If there were a GF on this plane then we unwashed flying P,Z;upgrades would be worse off.

The reason GF went away was because United (American; Delta) decided they could make more money with selling more BF seats.

If those HVF were willing to pay for a civilized amount of space quit flying on United et al., and they are not able to fill the front of the plane then there will be a chance that GF will return. RT and OW TPAC GF are only $900 more than BF.

The real killer of GF was/is the flat bed seat. Compared to the Barcalounger any flat bed seat is imo more than an order of magnitude more comfortable. Not so with the BF and GF flat beds.

I hope the new seats are more cushioned. But I'm not holding my breath.

I imagine the final product has been selected. The first 773 is scheduled to be delivered at the end of this year.

LaserSailor

snipped from Michaels post..

Exactly. There is far more revenue and profit from the majority of C and F fliers who just want to sleep and don't want the pandering and pampering. Its an international bus, and I want to arrive rested. There isn't a country in the world where I can't get a better food and dining experience than ANY airline.

jp12687

i feel like the things i value don't line up with everyone here on FT-- but wonder if it matches up with more real world wants-- as wants on FT don't seem to line up with the "masses"

I am a J flyer NYC-HKG 4-5 times a years + a lot of transcon flights out of EWR (mostly non PS when i can as i prefer to fly into a smaller airport closer to my destination than fly PS).

On a lot of my transcon non PS flights i buy up to domestic F.

That said-- the things i look for and really want on a long flight:

Connectivity (wifi on a 16 hour flight-- yes please), Big HD built in IFE, power and headset location being easy to access, a table in a position i don't have to contort to reach so i can grab my drink, Direct Aisle Access so i can get up anytime i want, fully lie flat.

Those are the things i value when paying $7k for a round trip ticket. I cannot spend endless amounts of money to fly J to asia-- $7k is the high end of my budget and SQ and others with "superior" offerings cost significantly more than that. The other issue is-- i like the direct flight from NYC to Asian-- no connections.

I see this 1-2-1 or 2-4-2 whatever it is-- which i think is a hybrid of each-- as being very competitive in the real world. Assuming seat cushioning doesn't suck-- this can be a very popular option at a "reasonable" price point.

Also with the # of seats they are having in J now-- theoretically award seating should be a bit easier to come by.

I think FT'ers want everything for free or are the flyers who can pay $10-13k for a trip and expect everything. The vast majority will be upgrading on GPU or paying a cap'ed fee in the $7k range for TPAC's. I think this IS optimized for the majority of the people who will be using it.

PsiFighter37

There are definitely some parts of the world where this wouldn't hold...

That said, your main point is really the driver (and my point somewhere earlier in this thread)...I don't think the vast majority of business class / first class flyers care about more than having a seat to sleep in on these long flights. Slightly nicer wines, smiling FAs, etc...that doesn't really make a difference one way or the other for most folks.

cerealmarketer

Exactly as many as Air France is fitting in its 777s with new seats - 28 seats forward of door 2 - the very same cabin space:

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air..._777-200_C.php



This is no more dense than that layout. 28 seats.

UA could have gone with that Air France seat and had the same cost benefits.

I get the sense they wanted do something more innovative with other parts of the seat, and offer some passengers more privacy than that layout. Something we will see when renderings are revealed and the prototypes are shown.

Who knows, maybe they'll charge extra for windows, or reserve them for 1Ks / GS. That would be the fireworks...

Michael D

One can always find a better meal/ dining experience on the ground then on a plane. Dining in a tube on a cot eating reheated food is not fine dining imo.

How many thousand of dollars will one pay for this enhanced service?

edgewood49

Apparently EK has a improved FC coming with the new 777's I was told on my last flight in Jan. that the 'walls' to the suites were higher and the FA said that it was going to be hard to be able to do a cabin check when everyone is sleeping Sounds like a great mile high experience

Michael D

oooops

cova

Seems like UA's biggest competition is AA - and AA's 77W is 1-2-1 with a total of 16 seats in this same space (8F and 8J) versus UA 28J seats in this space.