Oct 8, 2015, 9:39 am
Last edit by: UA Insider
Hi everyone,
Today we are announcing two additional routes out of San Francisco International Airport (SFO), in addition to our previously announced Xi’an, China service. Pending government approval, we plan to operate service between San Francisco-Tel Aviv (TLV) and San Francisco-Auckland (AKL) on our Dreamliner aircraft beginning in 2016.
Check out additional details, including launch dates, in our press release.
-UA Insider
http://newsroom.united.com/2015-10-0...Make-it-Better
Today we are announcing two additional routes out of San Francisco International Airport (SFO), in addition to our previously announced Xi’an, China service. Pending government approval, we plan to operate service between San Francisco-Tel Aviv (TLV) and San Francisco-Auckland (AKL) on our Dreamliner aircraft beginning in 2016.
Check out additional details, including launch dates, in our press release.
-UA Insider
http://newsroom.united.com/2015-10-0...Make-it-Better
United Airlines Made SFO the Best Pacific Hub. And Then Found 3 Ways to Make it Better.
Airline to launch one new Atlantic and two new Pacific services
October 08, 2015
SAN FRANCISCO, Oct. 8, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- United Airlines, the U.S. airline with the most comprehensive route network and the most trans-Pacific service, will further expand its global reach with new nonstop service from San Francisco to:
Tel Aviv, Israel, with service three times each week beginning March 30, 2016;
Auckland, New Zealand, with service three times each week beginning July 1, 2016, expanding to daily service in October; and
Xi'an, China, previously announced, three-times-weekly service beginning May 8, 2016, for the summer season.
Each new service is subject to government approval.
The airline intends to operate the new flights with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, the world's most advanced passenger airplane.
The Tel Aviv and Xi'an flights will be available for booking on united.com on October 10, 2015, with the Auckland flights available for booking on October 17, 2015.
San Francisco-Tel Aviv: Linking High-Tech Markets
As part of United's evaluation for serving San Francisco (SFO) to Tel Aviv (TLV) nonstop, the airline considered the opinions of thousands of customers who petitioned for the service through the SFOTLV.ORG petition effort.
"Providing corporate customers from throughout the Bay Area and Silicon Valley nonstop service to the high-tech market in Israel has been high on our priority list at United," said Dave Hilfman, United's senior vice president of worldwide sales. "Now with the 787-9 Dreamliner, we're delighted to make it a reality."
Flight | From To | Departure | Arrival
UA954 | SFO TLV | 8 p.m. We/Fr/Su | 8:10 p.m. the next day
UA955 | TLV SFO | 12:55 a.m. Tu/Fr/Su | 6 a.m. the same day
Flight times will be 14 hours, 10 minutes eastbound and 15 hours, 5 minutes westbound.
United has served Israel since 1999. The airline currently offers twice-daily Boeing 777 nonstop flights between Tel Aviv and New York/Newark.
San Francisco-Auckland
United's three-times weekly service to Auckland (AKL), New Zealand's largest city and main transportation hub to other points throughout the country, will launch July 1, 2016, with 787-8 aircraft. The schedule will expand to daily flights operating with 787-9 aircraft on Oct. 28, 2016, in time for the peak-winter travel season.
The Auckland flights will operate in partnership with United's Star Alliance partner Air New Zealand.
Flight | From To | Departure | Arrival
UA917 | SFO AKL | 10:45 p.m. | 6:55 a.m. two days later
UA916 | AKL SFO | 1:20 p.m. | 6:40 a.m. the same day
Flight times will be 13 hours, 10 minutes westbound and 12 hours, 20 minutes eastbound.
United in San Francisco
From its San Francisco hub, United operates nearly 280 daily flights to more than 90 destinations in North America, Latin America, Europe and Asia/Pacific.
Airline to launch one new Atlantic and two new Pacific services
October 08, 2015
SAN FRANCISCO, Oct. 8, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- United Airlines, the U.S. airline with the most comprehensive route network and the most trans-Pacific service, will further expand its global reach with new nonstop service from San Francisco to:
Tel Aviv, Israel, with service three times each week beginning March 30, 2016;
Auckland, New Zealand, with service three times each week beginning July 1, 2016, expanding to daily service in October; and
Xi'an, China, previously announced, three-times-weekly service beginning May 8, 2016, for the summer season.
Each new service is subject to government approval.
The airline intends to operate the new flights with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, the world's most advanced passenger airplane.
The Tel Aviv and Xi'an flights will be available for booking on united.com on October 10, 2015, with the Auckland flights available for booking on October 17, 2015.
San Francisco-Tel Aviv: Linking High-Tech Markets
As part of United's evaluation for serving San Francisco (SFO) to Tel Aviv (TLV) nonstop, the airline considered the opinions of thousands of customers who petitioned for the service through the SFOTLV.ORG petition effort.
"Providing corporate customers from throughout the Bay Area and Silicon Valley nonstop service to the high-tech market in Israel has been high on our priority list at United," said Dave Hilfman, United's senior vice president of worldwide sales. "Now with the 787-9 Dreamliner, we're delighted to make it a reality."
Flight | From To | Departure | Arrival
UA954 | SFO TLV | 8 p.m. We/Fr/Su | 8:10 p.m. the next day
UA955 | TLV SFO | 12:55 a.m. Tu/Fr/Su | 6 a.m. the same day
Flight times will be 14 hours, 10 minutes eastbound and 15 hours, 5 minutes westbound.
United has served Israel since 1999. The airline currently offers twice-daily Boeing 777 nonstop flights between Tel Aviv and New York/Newark.
San Francisco-Auckland
United's three-times weekly service to Auckland (AKL), New Zealand's largest city and main transportation hub to other points throughout the country, will launch July 1, 2016, with 787-8 aircraft. The schedule will expand to daily flights operating with 787-9 aircraft on Oct. 28, 2016, in time for the peak-winter travel season.
The Auckland flights will operate in partnership with United's Star Alliance partner Air New Zealand.
Flight | From To | Departure | Arrival
UA917 | SFO AKL | 10:45 p.m. | 6:55 a.m. two days later
UA916 | AKL SFO | 1:20 p.m. | 6:40 a.m. the same day
Flight times will be 13 hours, 10 minutes westbound and 12 hours, 20 minutes eastbound.
United in San Francisco
From its San Francisco hub, United operates nearly 280 daily flights to more than 90 destinations in North America, Latin America, Europe and Asia/Pacific.
UA Announces new Auckland and Tel Aviv service from San Francisco
Oct 9, 2015, 5:14 pm
#166
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Oct 9, 2015, 9:31 pm
#167
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As for ORD, there would certainly be a lot of traffic there. LY tried it and failed, though that may have had less to do with the numbers and more to do with the timing. That being said, if ORD or SFO pax will anyways need to connect, probably easier to make ORD pax connect in EWR which is a shorter flight and get SFO pax on a direct flight, not to mention the likelihood of higher paying J pax from SFO
Also with respect to TLV, I do think the local O&D market matters -- hence why JFK/EWR flights have stuck around over the years and PHL/ATL haven't. The Bay Area is #13 world Jewish population or 10% of what the NYC area has to offer.
I do remember when CO and UA merged that there were rumors of CO starting SFO-TLV with the 762 -- They didn't. And I'm surprised they would even consider this route over some other adds - like how about more Africa or IAH to deep South America?
Don't forget -- SFO tech traffic has and always will be a bubble. When it bursts, this route will for sure be a goner.
Oct 9, 2015, 10:35 pm
#168
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ORD-TLV on a 788 would definitely be more solid, IMHO. Way healthier connecting traffic and lots of corporate in Chicago. SFO-TLV is way too long and thin and even if there is tech traffic, I don't think it's enough to justify a route that is super long and thin. Even at 3x weekly, I'd be cautiously optimistic.
Also with respect to TLV, I do think the local O&D market matters -- hence why JFK/EWR flights have stuck around over the years and PHL/ATL haven't. The Bay Area is #13 world Jewish population or 10% of what the NYC area has to offer.
Also with respect to TLV, I do think the local O&D market matters -- hence why JFK/EWR flights have stuck around over the years and PHL/ATL haven't. The Bay Area is #13 world Jewish population or 10% of what the NYC area has to offer.
SFO is one of the top destinations for visitors, so some of the O&D will be leisure passengers originating in Israel, in addition to the tech traffic that should originate at both ends.
It may or may not be a winner, but I think it's a good sign that UA is trying something new. Personally, I like connecting on the east coast when I'm in economy to break up a horridly long flight in a cramped seat but when in a premium cabin, very long nonstops are more desirable. SFO-TLV is long enough that the business class passengers can get a long night's sleep even after enjoying a leisurely dinner and dessert. And they'll save a few hours over connecting at EWR. The fairly small CHI O&D can easily connect at EWR - lotsa frequencies and short connecting flight.
Oct 9, 2015, 11:45 pm
#169
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UA can bring Israelis to the SFBA and LA on one itinerary. El Al can take you to LA, but...
Oct 10, 2015, 12:25 am
#170
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There are policies on both extremes. However, companies with Y-only policies are less influential in driving international route decisions. Many of the biggest tech companies allow long haul travel in J. I'm not aware of any widespread allowance of F, though a few allow C-level, though those folks don't travel as much as lower level folks.
Oct 10, 2015, 5:34 am
#171
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UA, and prior to that CO, has dedicated 2x daily 777 to TLV. That's a lot of resources betting on a route you insist isn't printing money. And I highly doubt TLV is so crucial to corporate contracts that they must fly it.
AA cancelled 7 weekly frequencies to TLV and DL+UA immediately announced 11 new weekly frequencies, more than backfilling any lost capacity. That says to me both DL and UA believe money can be made, and in that sense, AA is definitely the odd man out to insist TLV is unprofitable from any hub, and a complete exit of the market is their best course of action.
Oct 10, 2015, 7:29 am
#172
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,942
Anybody booked award tickets yet SFO-TLV?
Nothing on UA (for the dates I wanted to travel), but found a decent routing on LH (SFO-MUC-TLV) in C so grabbed that for now ^
btw, the same set of seats show up as being occupied (on SFO-TLV) regardless of which day I choose ... .bomb is back?
Nothing on UA (for the dates I wanted to travel), but found a decent routing on LH (SFO-MUC-TLV) in C so grabbed that for now ^
btw, the same set of seats show up as being occupied (on SFO-TLV) regardless of which day I choose ... .bomb is back?
Oct 10, 2015, 8:11 am
#173
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SFO
Programs: UA GS,Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 37
Anybody booked award tickets yet SFO-TLV?
Nothing on UA (for the dates I wanted to travel), but found a decent routing on LH (SFO-MUC-TLV) in C so grabbed that for now ^
btw, the same set of seats show up as being occupied (on SFO-TLV) regardless of which day I choose ... .bomb is back?
Nothing on UA (for the dates I wanted to travel), but found a decent routing on LH (SFO-MUC-TLV) in C so grabbed that for now ^
btw, the same set of seats show up as being occupied (on SFO-TLV) regardless of which day I choose ... .bomb is back?
Looks like they only loaded high revenue fare, no awards yet which sucks ;(
Any idea anyone on when they typically load the award buckets? I was looking at a june timeframe...
Nice having another option here... direct beats 24 hours on a plane unless you can find a nice C on the 1stop route instead
Oct 10, 2015, 11:20 am
#175
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Jewish people is very little of travel to/from Israel. From a religious tourism perspective alone, there's also Christian and Muslim tourists. Factor in non-religious tourism, historical tourism, medical tourism, biz travelers, etc.
And of course travelers the other way around. With all the talk of tech, lost is that Tel Aviv and San Francisco are 2 of the biggest gay capitals of the world. Don't know how much travel that pushes, but an interesting fact nonetheless.
With flights from SJC to just 2 domestic hubs, I don't see UA inaugurating their first sx-SJC international flight as TLV, lucrative as it may be.
Exactly my point, that it may have just been the timing
I also thought it was due to the legal issues, but that myth has been clearly put to bed on FT and elsewhere. It simply wasn't profitable as it was mostly connections anyways.
If it was the legal issue, they would have stopped the moment AA acquired US.
I wonder how much traffic on LY will just move to UA. LY has no network so the LAX traffic is O&D. And there's huge tourism in LA and a massive Jewish community.
I see biz travelers who need SF moving to UA and *A pax regardless moving to UA, but much other staying as is
Traffic isn't based on size of Jewish community alone. YYZ sustains LY and AC (who upgauged) while being a smaller overall Jewish community than SF.
LY also has major routes to BKK with their 744 filling every seat virtually every day, with basically no Jewish community to speak of in BKK.
And of course travelers the other way around. With all the talk of tech, lost is that Tel Aviv and San Francisco are 2 of the biggest gay capitals of the world. Don't know how much travel that pushes, but an interesting fact nonetheless.
Pretty much every large tech company in the valley has some presence in Israel, usually due to an acquisition.
That said, if UA is doing this for the tech business then it should add SJC/BLR. That plane will fill every day.
That said, if UA is doing this for the tech business then it should add SJC/BLR. That plane will fill every day.
If it was the legal issue, they would have stopped the moment AA acquired US.
I see biz travelers who need SF moving to UA and *A pax regardless moving to UA, but much other staying as is
ORD-TLV on a 788 would definitely be more solid, IMHO. Way healthier connecting traffic and lots of corporate in Chicago. SFO-TLV is way too long and thin and even if there is tech traffic, I don't think it's enough to justify a route that is super long and thin. Even at 3x weekly, I'd be cautiously optimistic.
Also with respect to TLV, I do think the local O&D market matters -- hence why JFK/EWR flights have stuck around over the years and PHL/ATL haven't. The Bay Area is #13 world Jewish population or 10% of what the NYC area has to offer.
I do remember when CO and UA merged that there were rumors of CO starting SFO-TLV with the 762 -- They didn't. And I'm surprised they would even consider this route over some other adds - like how about more Africa or IAH to deep South America?
Don't forget -- SFO tech traffic has and always will be a bubble. When it bursts, this route will for sure be a goner.
Also with respect to TLV, I do think the local O&D market matters -- hence why JFK/EWR flights have stuck around over the years and PHL/ATL haven't. The Bay Area is #13 world Jewish population or 10% of what the NYC area has to offer.
I do remember when CO and UA merged that there were rumors of CO starting SFO-TLV with the 762 -- They didn't. And I'm surprised they would even consider this route over some other adds - like how about more Africa or IAH to deep South America?
Don't forget -- SFO tech traffic has and always will be a bubble. When it bursts, this route will for sure be a goner.
Funny you mention that, as SFO has more TLV O&D than CHI. The TLV O&D at LAX is about twice as much as SFO, but the tech traffic isn't in Los Angeles, it's in San Francisco. UA may be able to attract some UA-faithful connections from SEA, LAX, LAS and DEN, among other smaller west coast cities to help fill the plane.
SFO is one of the top destinations for visitors, so some of the O&D will be leisure passengers originating in Israel, in addition to the tech traffic that should originate at both ends.
It may or may not be a winner, but I think it's a good sign that UA is trying something new. Personally, I like connecting on the east coast when I'm in economy to break up a horridly long flight in a cramped seat but when in a premium cabin, very long nonstops are more desirable. SFO-TLV is long enough that the business class passengers can get a long night's sleep even after enjoying a leisurely dinner and dessert. And they'll save a few hours over connecting at EWR. The fairly small CHI O&D can easily connect at EWR - lotsa frequencies and short connecting flight.
SFO is one of the top destinations for visitors, so some of the O&D will be leisure passengers originating in Israel, in addition to the tech traffic that should originate at both ends.
It may or may not be a winner, but I think it's a good sign that UA is trying something new. Personally, I like connecting on the east coast when I'm in economy to break up a horridly long flight in a cramped seat but when in a premium cabin, very long nonstops are more desirable. SFO-TLV is long enough that the business class passengers can get a long night's sleep even after enjoying a leisurely dinner and dessert. And they'll save a few hours over connecting at EWR. The fairly small CHI O&D can easily connect at EWR - lotsa frequencies and short connecting flight.
LY also has major routes to BKK with their 744 filling every seat virtually every day, with basically no Jewish community to speak of in BKK.
Oct 10, 2015, 12:19 pm
#176
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Jewish people is very little of travel to/from Israel. From a religious tourism perspective alone, there's also Christian and Muslim tourists. Factor in non-religious tourism, historical tourism, medical tourism, biz travelers, etc.
And of course travelers the other way around. With all the talk of tech, lost is that Tel Aviv and San Francisco are 2 of the biggest gay capitals of the world. Don't know how much travel that pushes, but an interesting fact nonetheless.
And of course travelers the other way around. With all the talk of tech, lost is that Tel Aviv and San Francisco are 2 of the biggest gay capitals of the world. Don't know how much travel that pushes, but an interesting fact nonetheless.
Traffic isn't based on size of Jewish community alone. YYZ sustains LY and AC (who upgauged) while being a smaller overall Jewish community than SF.
LY also has major routes to BKK with their 744 filling every seat virtually every day, with basically no Jewish community to speak of in BKK.
Oct 10, 2015, 12:33 pm
#177
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The gay tourism to TLV obviously won't fill a flight but its not insubstantial either. Jewish tourism won't fill a flight either,but it contributes. This flight was added for the tech/biotech industry, the rest of the traffic fills out of the plane.
AC cut the frequencies its not 7x, and LY is 3-4x/week, but it is a 788.. The YYZ jewish community is on balance more religious than SFO...
AC cut the frequencies its not 7x, and LY is 3-4x/week, but it is a 788.. The YYZ jewish community is on balance more religious than SFO...
Oct 10, 2015, 12:42 pm
#178
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Agreed on both counts. My point is simply that whether or not a flight works isn't simply based on size of Jewish community (though there is a direct correlation with large Jewish populations sustaining flights, such as NYC (LY x5 daily, UA x2 daily, DL x1 daily), LON, Paris, and LA). There are other factors that are also quite important
Oct 10, 2015, 1:43 pm
#180
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 117
I dunno, are there many Jews in the Bay Area with dual citizenships as in
NYC ? I mean I know NYC has more Jews than anyplace after Israel, so I'm not expecting a huge number of dualAmerican-Israeli citizen in the Bay Area, but there's possibly a fairly impressive concentration though not as many as say LA, but of course LA isn't a UA hub.
NYC ? I mean I know NYC has more Jews than anyplace after Israel, so I'm not expecting a huge number of dualAmerican-Israeli citizen in the Bay Area, but there's possibly a fairly impressive concentration though not as many as say LA, but of course LA isn't a UA hub.