Rumor: UA may buy A380 {UA CFO says "just doesn’t really work for us"}

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Jun 2, 2015, 4:53 am

#76

AAExPlat

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Seeking Alpha now reporting same rumor. Not clear whether they are picking up the a.net rumor or if they have their own and separate sources.

http://m.seekingalpha.com/article/32...perjumbo-order

Jun 2, 2015, 5:07 am

#77

Karl-MDW

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LETTERBOY

I think if UA ever acquires either the 748 or A380, it will be because either Boeing or Airbus/MH gave them a good discount. Can't imagine it happening any other way.

Isn't this how UA got its original A320?

In the day - when UA employees had to dress up to fly free - I was sitting next to a SFO based UA mechanic who insisted that as the DC8 and DC10 were retired, UA would go all Boeing. Soon after, UA announced its A320 / A319 purchase.

THAT had to be a good deal for UA to buy Airbus at that time - and no other model since then.

I also doubt that UA will buy the A380 for all the reasons ever other writer has suggested, but then.....if the price is right!!!

Jun 2, 2015, 6:02 am

#78

LASUA1K

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl-MDW

Nope. UA went with the aircraft that could fly Coast to Coast. At the time Boeing was still selling 737-300-400 that couldn't make ORD-California reliably.

It was a big blow for Boeing and they went ahead and brought the 737-7.8.9 series soon after that.

Jun 2, 2015, 6:29 am

#79

EWR764

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Madone59

Ummmmmmmm. Can an A380 even land at EWR? IIFC The 748i needed special clearance/ certification to fly into EWR because of it's length. I can not imagine EWR is A380 capable.

We were discussing the 77W. A380 ops at EWR are possible but require special exemption from the FAA and ATC coordination due to the proximity of parallel runways and taxiways. In other words, I'm not holding my breath for the 380 at EWR from any carrier.

Jun 2, 2015, 8:00 am

#80

Madone59

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AAExPlat

Seeking Alpha now reporting same rumor. Not clear whether they are picking up the a.net rumor or if they have their own and separate sources.

http://m.seekingalpha.com/article/32...perjumbo-order

Seeking Alpha is user generated content and should be taken with a bag of salt. There are no pre-requisites for posting financial opinion/ data on that site.

Jun 2, 2015, 8:15 am

#81

entropy

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Most of the SA article is pure fantasy, particularly the parts about using it to offer a world-class product. They probably wouldn't even put F on it.

I can see Airbus doing a ridiculous deal to place the aircraft with United, just for the PR. And UA probably wouldn't mind having a smallish fleet of them for the right price.

Having said that I find it highly unlikely, and I would think that they would have better luck selling them to EK or even LY which does need a small fleet of modern VLAs for cheap.

Jun 2, 2015, 8:45 am

#82

AAExPlat

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Madone59

Seeking Alpha is user generated content and should be taken with a bag of salt. There are no pre-requisites for posting financial opinion/ data on that site.

It depends. Some authors appear on invite and have been vetted. I know one of my colleagues is in that boat. It is a cooperation between him, Forbes and SA....

Jun 2, 2015, 9:43 am

#83

fgirard

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Even though the sale (or re-sale) of the A380 would be great for my firm's bottom line, every indication has been made that once the firm orders are complete, the line would be shuttered and re-tooled for other aircraft. And if EK and SQ decides that they no longer want the A380, you can be assured that Airbus will seek to end maintenance programs, so that other operators would have to pay a fortune to keep the planes running.

Jun 2, 2015, 10:48 am

#84

Austin787

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There have been some indications about Airbus offering A380 NEO. Which make the A380 more compelling. Possible UA flights on the A380: SFO-FRA, SFO-LHR, SFO-SYD, SFO-PVG (if UA cannot obtain a 2nd frequency), LAX-LHR, LAX-SYD.

Jun 2, 2015, 11:09 am

#85

Always Flyin

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tuolumne

Second though, UAL could theoretically use A380 on some routes out of SFO, and actually fill them up, albeit that's still season-dependant to an extent.

Of course UA could fill them. That's not the issue. The issue is at what yield? If you have to discount heavily to sell the seats, it's not doing you any good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuolumne

Very exciting nonetheless, and yes, I have to wonder if they'd consider keeping the United First cabin, since they would suddenly be operating their flagship routes (SFO-Asia/Heatheow/Frankfurt) with a world-class flagship airplane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milepig

Why is this a given? The A380 could give a new flagship GF.

First class is dead. Full stop.

United is a two-class of service airline. They just happened to acquire some three-class of service aircraft in an ill-conceived merger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveo

I know everytime we go from ORD to Fra on LH on the 748i it is close to sold out, so if luftansa can get it to work why can't UA?

What are the yields?

There is zero chance UA acquires any A380s. Zero.

Last edited by goalie; Jun 2, 2015 at 7:26 pm Reason: Replaced trolling COdbaUA reference wit United

Jun 2, 2015, 11:28 am

#86

kevanyalowitz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Always Flyin

Unitedis a two-class of service airline. They just happened to acquire some three-class of service aircraft in an ill-conceived merger.

United is also not an airline for HVF, in part because they are two-cabin. Doubling down on this approach has certainly been one drivers of the HVF exodus.

Last edited by goalie; Jun 2, 2015 at 7:27 pm Reason: Edited quoted post to match edited original post & changed COdba UA to United

Jun 2, 2015, 11:34 am

#87

andrewwm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spin88

And w/o FC, the plane needs even more people to fill it, United with shrinking market share does not have those people, and as others have noted on some of the shorter routes (ORD-LHR) will prefer to run flights at different times of the day to capture more traffic.

Shrinking market share in some markets, expanding in others. Pax counts through SFO post-merger are up nearly 20-30%. UA has been keen to start a second SFO-PVG flight, for example, but lack of slots at PVG have proven to be a big problem.

I think UA could easily utilize 6 A380s at SFO without breaking a sweat pax-wise.

Quote:

Lets see in a few years when they arrive.... the 747s are fuel hogs, and require a lot of maintenance. Fuel spkes or travel falls (due to the economy or more competition on existing routes) and UA will want to park them. If its upgaging an existing route (and having to attract more passagners) or downgaging a 747 route to a 77W or 772, UA is going to use the 77Ws to replace the 747s.

As you say, 747s are gas guzzlers. An A380's trip costs are comparable to that of a 747, so any extra pax carried above that of the 747 are mostly gravy. If UA can support a 747 op on a marginal cost basis, it can support an A380 on a marginal cost basis.

The problem is that the A380's capital costs are extremely high, making purchase uneconomical compared to the relatively cheaper twin engines (those two extra engines ain't cheap). However, if Airbus is having an A380 fire sale or offering very generous lease terms (free walk from the lease etc.) then all bets, as they say, are off.

Quote:

I think that depends on how much UA grows/shrinks in the next few years and the competitive environment. If I were United's management, with the current very poor NPS score, bottom of every ranking results, and competition coming for their passengers, I would not be looking at substantially upgaging a lot of routes...

Pax at SFO don't seem to be avoiding UA, in fact it is UA boomtown at SFO. So there is scope for upguaging there.

Jun 2, 2015, 11:34 am

#88

N830MH

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UA will take 2 ex-Skymark A380

United will take 2 ex-Skymark A380 and it just only for the trial.

http://www.airlinehubbuzz.com/united...ake-two-a380s/

Quote:

United is set to take two “white tailed” A380s on a trial basis. According to reports from Aviation News USA, these A380s are from the cancelled Skymark Japan order.

Let see how it goes.