majortom

The devaluation in benefits for Premier Exex, 1K and GS makes it clear that, no matter how they try to spin it, they meant all elites.

bseller

Of course they did. .

The interesting thing will be to find out whether or not the HouCrew can actually turn UA into a LCC while remaining profitable.

I'll be wAAtching from the sidelines.

Dave

majortom

Eliminate the benefits of being a 1K and there is no longer a need for end of the year mileage runs. While some people on here (and I would bet SMI/J and RAI/J agree), feel that they scamming the system, as has been pointed out, these are almost pure profit for United for seats that would have gone unsold.

In addition, almost none of the benefits of being a PMUA 1K incurred real costs for United, at best some incurred opportunity costs (potential lost revenue).

entropy

CO has always thought of "reward" travel and upgrades as losing money.

they want to earn the money from CC partners and paid flights and not have to pay out anything.

I'm looking at the situation now, and I see little reason to increase flying for 1K.
Why?
To me the value in 1K was upgrade rate and airport service (CS/priority lines, etc). They've eliminated #2, and they're sure going to do their best to chip away at #1.

The SWUs have been a bit of a challenge to utilize the last year or so. The increased W fares relative to "lowest fare" means that you can either spend the extra $1k now, or waitlist with miles + cash copay and if you don't clear, at least you aren't out the money.

UA isn't seeing that W purchase as a positive, they only see the negative x dollars of business class ticket they voluntarily put into upgrade inventory. I did it recently on an EWR-IST that had R available, so it was SWUable. UA got an extra $500 for that one. If they weren't going to sell it (they certainly weren't going to sell it to me).

For int'l personal trips, I'm either going to upgrade with miles, SWU, or buy award biz/f. In scenarios 1&2 the decision is motivated by need for EQM earning and space availability. I'd think they'd rather have my cash than me spend miles on LH, but I guess not.

majortom

Many of these issues are not just perception. For example: dropping the number of RPUs for 1Ks from 8 to 4, eliminating the 1K/GS boarding lane (meaning that I cannot board late without waiting in line), same for security positions and 1K res.

Since 3/3, I have flown 15 flights and 2 of them in F and only about 4 more in E+. Not perception, reality.

The system no longer recognizes my phone number (despite it not having changed in 15 years) meaning that I have to give my MP number every time to a voice recognition system that works about 50% of the time and no one has an explanation (other then "this is a problem we have seen and are working on a fix") or any idea if or when it will be fixed.

I could continue, but I think I have made my point.

zabes64

OK so here is my little take on this:

• This is NOT Shannon's fault, she's being told by management what kind of spin she needs to put on it, and honestly to some extent I really believe that they are telling her one thing, but the other thing is happening.
  
  
• UA has created and will continue to create a lot of ill will from their top level elite customers, until someone steps in looks at the numbers and sees either (A) how many elites dropped their status or (B) how many elites hit their status and flew less this year. Myself I have flown over 200K EQMs for 3 years straight, this year I'll stop at 106 and AA gets the other 100K.
  
  
• UA may look at ways to fix this, I almost suspect there will be UA people that will suggest that they give aways "Sweet Spots" to 1Ks and GS customers as a way of apologizing. Here is my problem with that: I DON'T TRUST THEM. I can't clear on a W fare using a SWU, I HAVE to believe that SHARES would then be programmed to prioritize how many customers are on sub-W fares and then try and sell Int'l upgrades at check-in.
  
  Example: 52C seats on a 744, 40 already sold, 12 people on the WL with 7 W+ fares and 5 using Sweet Spots for below W. We know they are going to try and upsell all 12 at $700, but I could see them programming SHARES so that 5 seats are sold at $499 in hopes that they can sell the 5 seats that would go to Sweet Spot users.
  
  
• Right now this is a company that seems to be running in too many directions to have a stable product for customers. They seem to want to take care of their GS members and Corporate customers, but at the same time provide a LCC sort of feel along the way. Their domestic F is not as good as AA/DL, their customer service is erratic on its best day. In-Flight crews seem to hate their job, though many try to do it with a smile on their face, but even more they are there for your safety and that is it. The issues of announcing this is a CO or UA crew is even more proof they aren't happy. MileageOnePass is a joke, I find myself explaining what the 150/200K GPU deposits are to the new CO staff.
  
  
• Management is unaware of the problems that are being created because (as others have pointed out) they are on track to be a business case study about a smaller company taking over a larger company and trying to run the business as though things have not changed. Here is a stupid example, but it works, Communism can work in a community of 20-40 people, try it in a larger place and people start getting screwed and it falls apart. CO worked as a smaller #5 airline, the CO model does not work with an elite base 3x as large was what CO had.
  
  
• The culture merge isn't happening, they're creating a new cultured of PISSED off employees and customers.
  
  
• There is NO long term planning here in regards to retaining elites, because there is still that mantra of you don't like it, where else are you going to go? We have the largest route network, we have the largest alliance.. go ahead and leave, you'll be back. Here's the difference, I can now fly AA/BA down to South Africa and earn 100% mileage and not be worried if they are going to change the earning on partners mid year to screw me out of 20,000 EQMs.
  
  
• I truly BELIEVE that they were NOT talking about Silvers and here is why: Silvers do not fly that much, their benefits were not that much, they rarely expected an upgrade, they were paying for EVERYTHING besides bags and E+, how does one get over-entitled from paying Phone Fees and redeposit fees? I really believe he was talking about 1Ks, we don't pay any fees, we got the best compensation amounts, we had a dedicated carpet (w/ GS and look how quickly they took that away), we had a dedicated phone line which now seems to generally be a Premier Line. Seriously 1Ks were getting most of the benefits, we were the only group that was entitled in a sense, I just don't believe for a second that he meant Silvers, I think he meant 1Ks or ALL elites OTHER than Platinums.

PHLGovFlyer

Lots of thought provoking posts on UA's perception of elite FFs in this thread.

In the domestic U.S. airline business there aren't too many levers that the airlines can use to increase revenue for a given flight so the primary avenue to profitability has become cost reduction. It strikes me that the attitude expressed by Rainey flows from the idea that elite FFs represent a cost center to UA management and they are doing everything they can to reduce the costs associated with them.

Now to the flip side of that equation where if you cut benefits too much the airline starts to lose elites in large numbers and the revenue that goes with them:



All this makes me wonder if UA really doesn't have a solid set of numbers on the longer term impact of cutting elite benefits. Without that data they'd likely just squeeze in areas where the costs are greatest. Maybe they're just pushing certain levers here and there and will assess the impact over the longer term. This would fit with UA Insiders reports that some of the upcoming changes might not be implemented for up to a year(!). Maybe UA is simply standing back and watching as we all squirm under the new rules and waiting see what happens. It will take them a while to clearly see long term trends and only then will they consider adjusting. It seems to fit with most of the attitude and actions from the new UA so far.

bob_the_d

hah it's funny with the CC stuff. i flew into EWR terminal C a couple days ago and just recently noticed the sheer volume of chase explorer card advertisements there are there. i had realized from the gate to baggage claim, there really wasn't a single moment i wasn't out of line of sight from at least 4 banners with that dude holding the card in my face. it's not something i've ever looked out for before, but i definitely don't ever recall looking around and noticing the same advertisement everywhere. now it's just plastered on every inch of that terminal. kind of obnoxious.

DCEsquire

My concern is that UA wants to have it both ways with the W fares. Ultimately it the benefit of SWUs become virtually meaningless. Specifically, they want me to pay more for a W fare for a *chance* to upgrade while at the same time rendering it even more unlikely I will be able to upgrade because they are giving others TOD offers.

I'm finding out how this operates right now. IAD-DXB flight and almost 20 open seats in C. Wonder if I will get a TOD offer or it will go to kettle.

blug

I have no doubt that the generous, over-rewarding MileagePlus program has created lots of over-entitled elites.

When two airlines merge, there has to be changes to either or both programs. And it's not like there are negative changes only -- UA flyers get intra-asia CPU, more generous SDC policy, better award flexibility etc. I don't see why the new program is constantly being complained.

DL has been running a horrible ff program for years and they have achieved what they planned -- DL flyers are now used to it and no longer complain, and DL keeps making huge profit. Maybe UA can try something like that.

FlyWorld

And that is precisely the problem here.

I have no problem whatsoever paying $1000 more to UG on a 12-15 hour flight and save the GPU for a splurge getaway when loads and prices are low and R is open.

They don't have any obligation to give away the store to us.

The issue, which you nailed, is that they are not mixing the two models, so they end up screwing us. They take our money for the W fare, they don't clear the GPU, the sell the seat to someone else for $1000, and then we have to invest 30-90 minutes on the phone trying to get the GPU put back into our account.

If they gave everyone a chance to buy the TOD, and so we could just take the nice offer that they're giving to the kettle in the back of the plane on a super discount fare, I'd have no problem whatsoever with anything else.

It reminds me - my last flight to LHR from SFO, I sat next two two women who were not frequent flyers, who paid $900 for their tickets (not TOD - that's the actual price they paid for the seat), and they didn't even understand how they ended up in business class. I was trying to do some research, and they could not even articulate to me how they ended up sitting next to me in business class on a $900 economy fare with no status.

Something is just plain wrong here. And it's not about entitlement nor is it about UA optimizing revenue. It's about the executives who clearly are disconnected from any thread of reality.

gegarrenton

That isn't taking into account all the people like me who refuse to fly them anymore, no matter what. I pay ~20-30% more to fly AA each year simply because of their service.

For all those who are touting UA's data mining abilities, I have no doubt they have mountains. I am sure of it. I am also sure they are drowning in it just like every organization on the planet right now, from the CIA to Facebook. It's one of the biggest obstacles in the present day system. Anything they decide to do off mined data is at best a wild ... guess.

777 global mile hound

Just see what its like getting a Mileage Plus award seat at saver levels these days
One should see way more over entitlement amongst members as they pay plenty and get little back in return.
9 milllion elites waiting for tough to get upgrades and skimpy award availability.Its more elite not be elite.
One can be the last to board and not deal with the hustle and bustle to board.

No worries about over entitlement here I am proud to fly American and their outstanding One World partners with fully acceptable award inventory in most cases.
United was my favorite carrier and program through the 90s and even for some years after post 9-11 as a 1k
Every year award availablity and the program declined
customer service never recovered............Not a fan and try to avoid them accept where it makes sense based on schedule..........
Looks like the good old days are gone forever

LilAbner

Actually, RPU's for 1K qualifier's have been reduced from 8 (one per quarter for flying plus 10K) to 4 (one @75K & another @ 100K).

1K/GS boarding lane just means get there a little early & stand in the Priority lane and more times than not I have had the g/a move the rope in that lane for me if I show up late --- Not something to complain about, imho.

TSA has had Priority lanes at nearly every airport that I have visited.

1K res --- Every time I call the old UA 1K # my call is answered almost immediately.

I could continue, and there are a lot of things to b--ch about, but the above 4 are not something to be hollerin' about, from my neck of the woods!

majortom

Years ago I had a conversation with Graham Atkinson (then SVP of International) about improving service levels at United. He said that every survey they did said that people would not pay for higher service. I argued then (and still believe) that their surveys were wrong, because what they were getting was people's reaction that they would increase prices first and maybe increase service later.

Hyatt, Ritz Carlton, Four Seasons, etc. are able to charge more for their rooms than Motel 6, mostly because of higher levels of service. I know that I routinely pay more to shop at stores that provide me premium service. I would happily do that for an airline that did the same.