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-   -   Local lockdowns in the UK (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/u-k-ireland/2025295-local-lockdowns-uk.html)

13901 Apr 23, 2021 8:13 am


Originally Posted by IAN-UK (Post 33199221)
Endemic is an adjective.

Leaving aside the rest of your post, which I agree with, 'pandemic' can be considered an adjective too.

HB7 Apr 23, 2021 8:15 am


Originally Posted by IAN-UK (Post 33199095)
I'd be happy to address issues you raise, but it seems the path you advocate is the road we are already on. Restrictions are being lifted in phases, allowing the impact of each phase to be assessed. Within four weeks we'll have a whole raft of freedoms restored, hopefully including travel. You might feel the pace is too slow, but all I can do there is point you to the advice government has solicited from panels of eminent experts.

Some might find it to cathartic to rant against that expert advice, but rational response to such rants has become a game of whack-a-mole. The same meme of malevolent or deluded scientists hijacking the Covid-story bubbles up again. But i will have a go at tackling some of the issues you raise:
​​​​​.

So you have called my views dangerous, you've insulted me by sarcastically saying "we have scientists with years of work/research etc, but thank God we have you", and yet, just today you have said that the scientist who has said we are not in a pandemic is plain wrong. Further to this, you've told people to not read the telegraph because you implied it is media lies that we are out of a pandemic - when this was reported by many publications. That's all ok to you?

And tell me, since it is your highness that knows the most out of this, which scientists we should listen to and which we should ignore because they are wrong? Because that is what you've told us too right?

DaveS Apr 23, 2021 8:21 am


Originally Posted by alex67500 (Post 33199408)
Pandemic and endemic aren't antonyms. A pandemic (noun) means there's a disease across the world, and endemic (adj.) means it's there in nature for everyone to catch. The common cold, the flu, and noroviruses are all endemic. So yes, covid is endemic, but from a worldwide point of view we're still in a pandemic, i.e. it's a global disease crippling health systems and killing many thousands a day. Saying it isn't a pandemic in the UK anymore makes no sense.

According to the academics, we had an epidemic which became a pandemic, now its endemic and surrounded by an infodemic. Confused???

ahmetdouas Apr 23, 2021 8:23 am


Originally Posted by SailorTomSparrow (Post 33199440)
Hi everybody, after reading this thread with great interest, I would like your thoughts on my situation. I am reading the UK Government plans to issue a travel certificate before May 17 for those who have been vaccinated in the UK with (I assume) NHS records.

I am a UK national with NHS record, NI number and NHS number, however I am currently based in the United States but with an address in the UK. I received the single dose J&J vaccine in the US and got a CDC card with it. Do you think it could be possible for me to contact my GP in the UK and ask for this to be added to my NHS record so I could get a UK travel certificate certifying my single dose J&J vaccine? I want this as security in case the CDC card is not enough proof for some countries or airlines. As of yet there is not really much talk of a US vaccine certificate for travel.

Thanks,

Thomas

I doubt it Thomas. Just keep it as proof of vaccination should you need it.

DaveS Apr 23, 2021 8:28 am


Originally Posted by SailorTomSparrow (Post 33199440)
Hi everybody, after reading this thread with great interest, I would like your thoughts on my situation. I am reading the UK Government plans to issue a travel certificate before May 17 for those who have been vaccinated in the UK with (I assume) NHS records.

I am a UK national with NHS record, NI number and NHS number, however I am currently based in the United States but with an address in the UK. I received the single dose J&J vaccine in the US and got a CDC card with it. Do you think it could be possible for me to contact my GP in the UK and ask for this to be added to my NHS record so I could get a UK travel certificate certifying my single dose J&J vaccine? I want this as security in case the CDC card is not enough proof for some countries or airlines. As of yet there is not really much talk of a US vaccine certificate for travel.

Thanks,

Thomas

Thanks for asking a sensible question to distract us all! There are others here that can give a better answer I am sure, but I will try, in part anyway. I don't think the J&J is approved here yet, which I am guessing would be a problem for any certificate in the short term. Not that they are happening in the short term. I did read that the approval was delayed whilst they looked at the blood clot data, but hopefully it is not too far off.

I think it would be worth contacting your GP to see if your record can be updated. There is no harm in getting that sorted out as soon as possible. After that, just wait and see what happens.

IAN-UK Apr 23, 2021 8:32 am


Originally Posted by HB7 (Post 33199459)
The pandemic being over in the UK is what Sarah Walker, Professor of Medical Statistics and Epidemiology at Oxford said - how come you have decided that she is wrong? I genuinely don't understand - because you can't have it both ways. You can't agree with the scientists who say what you want them to say, and just call the ones who disagree with what you want to hear wrong.

You have constantly lambasted me and others for just questioning scientists, yet you have chosen to just say this scientist is wrong? Kind of hypocritical no?


The good professor is a fine scientist, reporting excellent news about the UK situation.

But she either expresses herself badly or her words are reported badly: a pandemic is by definition a world event. It's not something a country can declare itself out of. Infection rates are low in the UK, but the world is still in a pandemic - and we are part of that world.

fransknorge Apr 23, 2021 8:49 am

Her exact words:

“I am cautiously optimistic,” she said at a briefing discussing the new research. “I think the last three months have shown the combined effect of lockdown and vaccination but long term lockdown is not a viable solution, so vaccines are clearly going to be the only way that we are going to have a chance to control this long term.

“Without vaccines, I don’t think getting close to zero is really feasible in the situation now in the UK where we’re effectively endemic, we’ve moved from a pandemic to an endemic situation.”

But she warned ‘“the virus is always going to throw us curve balls and we’re only a small step away from things going wrong again”.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...demic-britain/

So she basically says that the situation in the UK only is being brought under control by lockdown and vaccines, that in the long term this allows to get away from lockdown but it needs to be done carefully. A far cry from the interpretation of Ahmetdouas

ayearinmx Apr 23, 2021 8:50 am


Originally Posted by JEM_NYC (Post 33199410)
Just like travel should be, or... you are Typhoid Mary evading controls and seeding spreader events across the continent. All of the social controls against the pandemic are predicated on the cooperation of the members of the society. The fact that one can avoid the restrictions doesn’t mean one should. i do hope you at least wore decent masks when interacting with people.

guess you missed about the fact i took multiple PCR tests during this time, and the fact i didn't actually avoid the restrictions, because there weren't those restrictions in those countries for what my purpose was..... so no-need to get on your high-horse, and get all virtuous, i was simply stating the over-the-top rules we have in place for travel in the UK isn't the same in the EU right now

and please don't tell me what mask i should be wearing.... jeez some people :rolleyes:

HB7 Apr 23, 2021 9:08 am


Originally Posted by IAN-UK (Post 33199535)
The good professor is a fine scientist, reporting excellent news about the UK situation.

But she either expresses herself badly or her words are reported badly: a pandemic is by definition a world event. It's not something a country can declare itself out of. Infection rates are low in the UK, but the world is still in a pandemic - and we are part of that world.

You said she was wrong - why her but others are correct, is that or is it not, by definition hypocritical?

The definition of a pandemic is not a world event. By definition, a pandemic is occurring over a wide geographic area (such as multiple countries or continents) and typically affecting a significant proportion of the population, according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, so it doesn't necessarily mean the whole world. I'll be the first to admit, this is not my area, and I don't claim to know anything about it, however, I understood Sarah Walker to mean the pandemic is over for the four nations of the UK.

HB7 Apr 23, 2021 9:11 am


Originally Posted by alex67500 (Post 33199408)
A pandemic (noun) means there's a disease across the world. Saying it isn't a pandemic in the UK anymore makes no sense.

That's not correct - pandemic can cover large regions, multiple countries or the whole world, as defined by the Merriam-Webster dictionary. The UK has four nations, I don't see how saying the pandemic is over does not make sense.

DaveS Apr 23, 2021 9:12 am

Daily data:

Cases 2,678 (2,596 last Friday)
Deaths 40 (34)
Patients admitted 174 (205 on the 12th)
Patients in hospital 1,879 (2,290 on the 14th)
People vaccinated up to and including 22 April 2021
First dose: 33,388,637
Second dose: 11,623,671

The rolling seven day daily average is down 4.1% on the previous week. It was reported earlier that the ONS monitoring says 1 out of 610 people in England had COVID in the week ending 16 April. That is downfrom 1/480 the week before.

HB7 Apr 23, 2021 9:16 am


Originally Posted by IAN-UK (Post 33199221)
Endemic is an adjective. As used by Sir Jeremy it means the disease is here to stay, it's with us for keeps, in the background. Something we have to live with. He's saying he doesn't believe we can eradicate the disease.
The other meaning of endemic is to describe something limited to a region or country: clearly to describe Covid as endemic to the UK is ridiculous, even for The Telegraph.
Covid is a pandemic, It's a disease that spread worlwide. It's not for UK, UAE or US or any other state to withdraw from that condition.

Pretty much everything said here is incorrect.

Pandemic is also an adjective.
The Telegraph didn't say that - a scientist did.
Pandemic does not necessarily mean worldwide. The pandemic can cover most of the world, as it does now, but four nations make up the UK, and by definition, the UK can be out of a pandemic while the majority of the world is still in a pandemic.

DYKWIA Apr 23, 2021 9:31 am

Looking at the stats for this thread, 6 people have posted more than 300 times. Of those, 4 seem to just post the same thing, over and over again - nothing of substance.

Only 2 offer any useful information.

I'll leave you work out who I'm referring to :D

plunet Apr 23, 2021 10:37 am


Originally Posted by DaveS (Post 33199526)
Thanks for asking a sensible question to distract us all! There are others here that can give a better answer I am sure, but I will try, in part anyway. I don't think the J&J is approved here yet, which I am guessing would be a problem for any certificate in the short term. Not that they are happening in the short term. I did read that the approval was delayed whilst they looked at the blood clot data, but hopefully it is not too far off.

I think it would be worth contacting your GP to see if your record can be updated. There is no harm in getting that sorted out as soon as possible. After that, just wait and see what happens.

From a data subject point of view, you have a right to get data held about you corrected. It's your medical record, your data. In this case it's about data that is missing, and it was not the fault of the data controller (the GP/NHS) that it's not present. But as a data subject you have the right to offer information to a data controller to get your data corrected to represent reality and to ensure that appropriate healthcare decisions are made about you based upon the data in the record. Note that the data controller has the right to satisfy themselves that the data being offered is factual and accurate where other decisions are contingent upon that data.

I think DaveS is correct that from a practical point of until J&J is approved in the UK it might be complicated for the relevant data fields to be populated with the vaccine name as it's unlikely to be "in the list" on the GP system, so from a pragmatic point of view it might easier to wait until J&J is approved in the UK, otherwise it might go in as unstructured data (just free text) and then be faced by other problems.

An interesting question and hopefully my answer gives you a view on a possible way forward.

VSLover Apr 23, 2021 11:10 am


Originally Posted by SailorTomSparrow (Post 33199440)
Hi everybody, after reading this thread with great interest, I would like your thoughts on my situation. I am reading the UK Government plans to issue a travel certificate before May 17 for those who have been vaccinated in the UK with (I assume) NHS records.

I am a UK national with NHS record, NI number and NHS number, however I am currently based in the United States but with an address in the UK. I received the single dose J&J vaccine in the US and got a CDC card with it. Do you think it could be possible for me to contact my GP in the UK and ask for this to be added to my NHS record so I could get a UK travel certificate certifying my single dose J&J vaccine? I want this as security in case the CDC card is not enough proof for some countries or airlines. As of yet there is not really much talk of a US vaccine certificate for travel.

Thanks,

Thomas

i concur with the others that there is no rush until j&j are approved here. further, the 'vaccine passports' that have been reported in the last 24hrs all talk about how they want some certification in place by next month.

as we saw when the government couldnt even produce documentation to border control until the night before hotel quarantines started...i would not hold your breath on some magic HMG certificate being fit for purpose by 17 may!


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