Maybe there happen to be a lot of Nexus members who don't live in Canada, and therefore have to cross the Canadian border _before_ accessing a Nexus office? So knowing whether or not they can try the Nexus lane without updating the Nexus system might be useful knowledge (and/or not unnecessarily scaremongering them into avoiding Nexus altogether).

In fact I know plenty of Nexus members who are nowhere near a Nexus office, and only use the Nexus component once every 3 years (whereas they use GE regularly).

Based on your response, I'm not certain if you are fully aware of the history of the disagreement on this topic. Perhaps you were not involved in those discussions at that time.

If you refer back to post #9791, you'll see that disagreement is on the risk of losing NEXUS (as in being expelled) for not updating expired passport in person in CBSA.

There is a difference between interruption and expulsion.

Let's say I just got a new passport to replace my expired one last week but I have no plans to travel to Canada until Summer 2017 because I don’t live near the border.

Fearmongering that if you don't update CBSA in person, you risk being kicked out of NEXUS compels me to make a trip to Canada now solely for the purpose of updating "The Darned Documents In The Office" vs. I'll update in GOES now and drop by CBSA when I enter Canada next summer and even then, short of NEXUS kiosk or CBSA officer checking NEXUS receipt at exit informs you, most people wouldn't even be aware there is a Step 2 (update in person with CBSA) involved.

I have been on this thread for about 4 years and have more or less kept on top of it.
I am aware there is disagreement.
However, I would not say that expulsionists constitute the majority of the sub-group that recommend or strongly recommend updating.
I see YOU characterizing the "update-in-person camp" as fear-mongering about expulsion. I don't read update-in-person arguments as predicated on that possibility alone. I have interpreted some posts as being told to update in person when they had their interview but I don't see strong contention that those people believed expulsion would result. Like you, I don't recall anyone saying it had actually happened. I do see a LOT of "why take a chance?" and "why NOT do it if it is convenient?"
If you are sitting in a Dunkin' in the middle of Kansas, by all means don't sweat it. Next time you get near the Canadian border, do it.
I crossed the Canadian border twice or three times after getting a new passport because I crossed before office opened or after it had closed. I updated on GOES but could not get to the office in person.
On one occasion there was a bit of aggravation but I forget what it was. I had to go the regular non-GE/NEXUS way or something. Obviously my privileges were not rescinded. I felt confident that it would be clear from my travel history that I had not blown off any opportunities to update in person.
I joined the program to avoid interruption. The first time I approached the border during office hours, I updated, five minutes in and out.

flyquiet - Sorry for the tone in prior post. I was going to update it but saw that you already responded.

This.
Well said, and exactly what I was trying to convey in my OP. You captured it it far better than I did. No fearmongering, but let's just tell people what we now know to be true - an in-person update is required regardless of what the website says because just updating in GOES does not communicate the new information to the Canadian side.

Well, I would argue that it is proof that GEOflying didn't lose Nexus for not updating in person - not that there's no risk to any given member. I don't know 100% that it doesn't mean there is no risk. Get the wrong agent on the wrong day, and who knows? That's why no matter what, I always update in person.

IME, it doesn't matter whether you are using it or not, GE and Nexus are trusted traveler programs - when you've violated that trust, what else is left? Does it matter what program (or not) you were entering in on the time. Any customs violation within recent period of time (what is it, 5 years? longer?) will deny one Nexus. It's very possible once the violation was put in the system, it was connected to their trusted traveler profile, it was automatically revoked.

This. Just update the Canadian website to say - you must report passport updates in person. End of story. Everything is solved.

Except Geoflying's four post in this thread clearly indicates he went into the enrollment centre with the intent of updating his iris scan and not for passport updates. CBSA determined nothing wrong with iris scan but that passport information was out of date.

CBSA updated passport and sent him on his way. Does not sound like CBSA was upset that passport information was out of date nor did CBSA warned him "never to do it again" as in failure to update passport in person (earlier).

Sounds like Geoflying followed written CBSA instructions on updating passport in GOES only and concluded that he fulfilled his NEXUS responsibilities until kiosk stopped working for him, and (mistakenly) concluded iris scan was the problem which then led him to show up at an enrollment centre.

As mentioned previously, if I have no plans to travel to Canada for 180 days after I get a new passport, am I considered delinquent? What if I have no plans to travel to Canada for 2 years?

From a process flow perspective, being expelled from NEXUS for not updating with CBSA in person does not make any sense given official written instructions on CBSA, from the example I just provided above, and the data points on FT.

As long as CBSA website instruction continue to state update in GOES only, the only reasonable response from CBSA when you do show up at enrollment office because NEXUS kiosk flags you or CBSA officer collecting NEXUS receipt directs you to is to update passport and bid you a good day.

Any other response would just a be rogue CBSA agent having a bad day and which case, he could just as easily expel you from NEXUS for showing up to update passport without an appointment or showing up right before they close for lunch, having a beard when your passport does not have one, or changing your hair color, etc.

I just don't get what all this discussion is about, frankly. My suggestion was that we tell people who come here looking for this information that it is necessary to update in person despite what the website says. Whether they do it or whether, like you, they choose to wait until the next time they are in town or whether they say screw it and never do it at all is up to them. Why muddy the waters with all of this pointless discussion?

People come here seeking information or they would never ask the question. Let's just give them the correct information amd they can do with it what they will based on their risk tolerance, travel patterns and needs.

But all this discussion just serves to confuse people more. Why would you intentionally mislead or confuse someone who asks the simple question "do I need to update in person 'cause the website says I don't but I was told by an officer that I do"? Just say yes. Because we now know that to be irrefutably true. Why would you tell them otherwise? They can then make their own decision on whether they can/should/want to. :rolleyes:

I think we are discussing two different things here. I'm discussing that there is no risk to being expel from NEXUS for not updating in person and stating there is a risk is fearmongering. This is backed by CBSA website, and small amount of datapoints on FT. That is the my focus. I think you are interpreting beyond that scope.

The only thing that is misleading in all of this is the claim that one risk expulsion from NEXUS for not updating in person because it is misleading one to think despite my next travel plan to Canada is 6 months away, 18 months away or never, I'm risking expulsion from NEXUS unless I make a trip up to Canada right away after I get a new passport in hand so that I can update in person. I understand you are not in the camp making this claim.

In reality, the only risk for not updating in person appears to be risk of interruption of Canada-bound NEXUS privileges until one appear before CBSA officer in NEXUS enrollment centre.

You appear to be based out of YVR so visiting an enrollment centre, so it is easy for you to say, just update in person but many of us don't live near an enrollment centre so it is important to clarify whether the risk is expulsion from NEXUS or mere interruption of Canada-bound NEXUS privileges.

Interruption on the CBSA side means:
1.) No interruption to PreCheck or to enter US with GE.
2.) NEXUS privilege being restored after update in person

Expulsion means no US-benefits and having to appeal and/or reapply/paying another enrollment fee/go thru interview process.

Another example. Let's say I'm based in US and put on a 9-month engagement in Canada with weekly travel. After being sent to secondary multiple times so that CBSA can review all my documents are in order to support NAFTA entry as business visitor, I pay the $50 and enroll in NEXUS because it also includes PreCheck and GE. After my Canadian project is over, my travel for the remaining of 5-year NEXUS period does not involve Canada (or perhaps I'm not returning Canada until Year 4). If not updating in person is merely risk to interruption on the CBSA side (or until I return in Year 4), I could care less. Whereas on the other hand, if not updating in person means expulsion from NEXUS, then I lose PreCheck and GE.

I hope I clearly illustrate that my discussion here is limited what the risk of not updating in person is and that that is a distinction between expulsion and interruption on the CBSA side. So far, there is no data point here to indicate expulsion from NEXUS but only interruption of Canada-bound NEXUS privileges.

But who ever suggested there was a risk of expulsion from Nexus? I know I never did. Why are we even discussing that as a possibility when we all agree it is unlikely? That (the perceived risk of expulsion) was raised by you, seawolf, in your first post following mine, post #10099.

No one raised the issue of possible risk - you did. No one is arguing that expulsion is a real possibility so why keep bringing it up? You are trying to convince us that there is little risk of expulsion when we all agree with that.

Just a point—it's not just "the website" that says updating in person is not necessary. All published documentation from CBSA says that updating in GOES is all that is required and in-person visits to the office are not necessary.

It's clear to me that CBSA is supposed to get updates of changes made in GOES. CBSA certainly expects to be getting them, based on what all the published rules and guidelines say.

But the multiple reports from people here on flyertalk make it clear that GOES changes are not being pushed through to CBSA in some cases. The explanation that makes the most sense to me is that there is a computer glitch preventing the data from getting through. Naturally, we NEXUS members can't be held responsible for CBSA/CBP's IT problems.

Sure, update in person at a CBSA office to be safe. But don't panic if you don't or can't. You'll be fine.

Moderator's Note:
 

FlyerTalk Rule 12.2:

Moderator's Note:
 

WARNING!

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So my experience with NEXUS so far. I crossed a land border 4 times in 3 days in both directions.

First Crossing into the United States:
- Forgot to activate my NEXUS card before approaching the checkpoint. U.S. CBP agent treated me like I'm an idiot and berated me for several minutes before seizing my NEXUS card and sending me to secondary inspection to verify my identity.
- Spent less than four minutes in secondary inspection. They called me up to the desk, held up the card next to my head to verify it's me and asked me to verify my home address. Gave me a verbal reminder to activate it being crossing back into the United States.
- Asked if I could pop my trunk for a quick inspection. I had purchased a bouquet of flowers in Canada to bring over to the United States for someone and the secondary inspection CBP agent FLIPPED out. It's 100% my fault for not checking what I'm allowed to bring across the border but didn't think grocery store bought flowers aren't OK. CBP Sergeant came out to talk to me and told me I could keep them and to not do it again. Was nervous as it could have resulted in me being shot :p
- Asked me a bunch of in-depth questions including a funny one such as why would I bring a rental vehicle... because I don't own a car?
- Overall it took 10 minutes and all of it was my fault.

First crossing back into Canada:
- Took me a bit longer because I loaded my NEXUS card with funds so I could use it to pay the border toll prior to crossing back into Canada.
- Asked if I had anything to declare and was waved on.
- Quick and painless.
- Crossing took approximately 60 seconds.

Second crossing into the United States:
- Asked if I had anything to declare and was waved on.
- Quick and painless.
- Crossing took approximately 60 seconds.

Second crossing back into Canada:
- This one took a bit longer. Approximately 3-4 minutes. CBSA agent was nosy. She asked me why I was in the United States, where did I visit, the reason for my visit, where I stayed, how long I stayed, if I traveled alone, if I met anyone in the United States and finally if I had anything to declare.
- Crossing took approximately 3-4 minutes.

Nobody asked me why I crossed back and forth twice in a span of 3 days. Fantastic.

My question is: Do I have to legally answer CBSA questions other than the question about if I have anything to declare? What business is it of theirs? I'm a Canadian citizen, they cannot deny me re-entry.