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Alternatives when airline refuses to board due to passport's nationality.

Alternatives when airline refuses to board due to passport's nationality.

Old Sep 15, 2014, 12:40 pm
  #106  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
All airlines have "hidden conditions" of some sort. For example, no US airline has ever highlighted the condition, during the booking process, that the passenger with a valid ticket and valid ID may be denied travel due to a hidden blacklist. I wouldn't call it fraud, but I would call it customer-unfriendly -- no less because the airlines don't really lobby hard against this kind of stuff; and more so because the airline labor unions are often fans of the dog and pony show in the name of "security" or who knows what as long as it hits the passengers and not them. This situation isn't really that different: not fraud, but customer-unfriendly.
True, which is why I used the words, 'I would say' rather than courts have determined. It was a personal opinion, which I might apply to airlines not disclosing blacklisting as well. I was not using the term 'fraud' as a term of legal art. I would presume that airlines must refund someone's money if they can't fly that person due to a black list, but I may be presuming too much.
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Old Sep 15, 2014, 6:19 pm
  #107  
 
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Originally Posted by Tchiowa
I agree with you that I don't think this is a deliberate fraud. But the whole recognition thing of Israel is very real in this world. Kuwait is not the only government who doesn't recognize Israel. And that isn't a "I don't believe it exists", but rather a very specific legal statement that is recognized by other nations. Prior to Nixon, for example, the US didn't recognize China. Today, the US doesn't recognize Taiwan.

And keep in mind that Kuwait Air is an arm of the Kuwaiti government.
One wonders what the U.S. Government was really fighting for, when it joined (or, rather, created) the War of Kuwaiti Independence in 1990.

Freedom and democracy? Yeah, right. Welcome back, emir.

Airlines operating from the U.S. ought to be required to "recognize" the countries the U.S. recognizes, imo.
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Old Sep 15, 2014, 6:54 pm
  #108  
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Originally Posted by GaryD
One wonders what the U.S. Government was really fighting for, when it joined (or, rather, created) the War of Kuwaiti Independence in 1990.

Freedom and democracy? Yeah, right. Welcome back, emir.

Airlines operating from the U.S. ought to be required to "recognize" the countries the U.S. recognizes, imo.
United flies to Kuwait. Should they be obligated to follow Kuwaiti law?

Remember, Kuwait Air is part of the Kuwait government.
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Old Sep 15, 2014, 8:13 pm
  #109  
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Originally Posted by GaryD
One wonders what the U.S. Government was really fighting for, when it joined (or, rather, created) the War of Kuwaiti Independence in 1990.

Freedom and democracy? Yeah, right. Welcome back, emir.

Airlines operating from the U.S. ought to be required to "recognize" the countries the U.S. recognizes, imo.
That would Balkanize much of the world of transport if every country decided to play that game your way.
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Old Sep 15, 2014, 8:34 pm
  #110  
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Originally Posted by GaryD
One wonders what the U.S. Government was really fighting for, when it joined (or, rather, created) the War of Kuwaiti Independence in 1990.

Freedom and democracy? Yeah, right. Welcome back, emir.

Airlines operating from the U.S. ought to be required to "recognize" the countries the U.S. recognizes, imo.
the US govt was not fighting for the sake of fighting or for the sake of doing the right thing or even acting as mediators/peacemakers for a greater cause etc. they were invited or rather hired by the kuwaiti govt, and paid billions of $$$ to fight on behalf of them to defeat iraq.

so thats what the US govt was fighting for: money. and lots of it, that is also funneled to the US via the saudi royal fam. its the same reason saudi citizens are treated so well in the US esp at customs and border patrol, because there's a directive in place "to be nice to all saudi citizens" and it was the reason even tho most of the 9/11 hijackers were saudi nationals (and part of the reason why they got into the country so easily even with expired visas,) that we did not do the right thing and invade saudi. but the story goes back or rather starts decades ago. you can read more about it in this book: http://www.amazon.com/House-Bush-Sau.../dp/0743253396

Last edited by FTR 787; Sep 15, 2014 at 8:42 pm
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Old Sep 15, 2014, 11:12 pm
  #111  
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Invade Saudi Arabia over 9/11? Bad idea, no less so because it would have been Osama bin Laden's fantasy come true.

Wait, what does this have to do with Kuwait Airways.

Does SV have any flights to/from the US that doesn't begin or end in Saudi Arabia? Or is Kuwait Airways the only airline in this kind of position of having a flight between the US and another country where both countries accept Israeli passports but whose home country doesn't accept Israeli passports?

Last edited by GUWonder; Sep 15, 2014 at 11:18 pm
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Old Sep 15, 2014, 11:18 pm
  #112  
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what that has to do with KU is that the US govt or any other govt (UK and other EU govts) which pander to petrodollars will turn a blind eye to many forms of injustice. thats just the world we live in -- money talks and BS walks.

also how would that have been OBLs fantasy come true? you realize majority of his fam is still in saudi and even if they had cut ties with him, they'd be hurt the most.
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Old Sep 15, 2014, 11:23 pm
  #113  
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Originally Posted by FTRox87
what that has to do with KU is that the US govt or any other govt which panders to petrodollars will turn a blind eye to many forms of injustice.

also how would that have been OBLs fantasy come true? you realize majority of his fam is still in saudi and even if they had cut ties with him, they'd be hurt the most.
OBL & Co. wanted the Saudi monarchy to be deposed and assumed that US military or police action in Saudi Arabia would open the door for him to get his way.

His Saudi citizenship had been revoked by the Saudi royal family well before 9/11, even as he was on his way to being rehabilitated by the Saudi establishment in the summer leading up to 9/11.
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Old Sep 15, 2014, 11:44 pm
  #114  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Does SV have any flights to/from the US that doesn't begin or end in Saudi Arabia? Or is Kuwait Airways the only airline in this kind of position of having a flight between the US and another country where both countries accept Israeli passports but whose home country doesn't accept Israeli passports?
PK, BD, and MH have at various times operated fifth-freedom flights to the U.S., though none seem to be operating at present. Were Israeli passport holders allowed to take those flights?
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Old Sep 15, 2014, 11:50 pm
  #115  
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Originally Posted by mecabq
PK, BD, and MH have at various times operated fifth-freedom flights to the U.S., though none seem to be operating at present. Were Israeli passport holders allowed to take those flights?
BD? That was British. Do you mean Biman?

I don't know what PK and MH's practices have been on these routes when they existed, but it would be interesting to know.
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Old Sep 15, 2014, 11:53 pm
  #116  
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Doesn't SQ have some fifth freedom flights?

Pakistani International Airlines used to do CDG-JFK. I don't know whether they still serve this route.
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Old Sep 15, 2014, 11:55 pm
  #117  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Doesn't SQ have some fifth freedom flights?

Pakistani International Airlines used to do CDG-JFK. I don't know whether they still serve this route.
SQ does, but their home country has formal, publicly-acknowledged diplomatic relations with Israel.

I haven't seem a PK flight from the US to CDG in ages.
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 4:37 am
  #118  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
BD? That was British. Do you mean Biman?

I don't know what PK and MH's practices have been on these routes when they existed, but it would be interesting to know.
Right, I meant BG. Sorry.
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 10:12 am
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Tchiowa
United flies to Kuwait. Should they be obligated to follow Kuwaiti law?
I would think UA would want to prevent a person boarding with an Israeli passport on a flight to Kuwait. UA would be responsible for flying that person back to the US.

Originally Posted by mecabq
PK, BD, and MH have at various times operated fifth-freedom flights to the U.S., though none seem to be operating at present. Were Israeli passport holders allowed to take those flights?
EK also flies JFK-MXP (flight #205/206).
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 10:29 am
  #120  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
OBL & Co. wanted the Saudi monarchy to be deposed and assumed that US military or police action in Saudi Arabia would open the door for him to get his way.
and what would be so wrong in deposing the saudi monarchy? just because woodrow wilson made a deal with the saud family at the league of nations conference when they were diviing up the world after the end of WW1, doesnt mean that it hasnt outlived its purpose.

I mean sure there's always a risk that doing that would turn saudi into the next iraq, post-saddam. or current-day egypt with sham democracy. but atleast its a step forward in perhaps the right direction.
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