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Alternatives when airline refuses to board due to passport's nationality.

Alternatives when airline refuses to board due to passport's nationality.

Old Sep 22, 2014, 6:26 am
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Originally Posted by relangford
Is it too simplistic for US and UK citizens to refuse to fly (i.e., boycott) Kuwait Airways until they become rational? If there were far fewer passengers JFK - LHR, the airline might decide it is OK to fly Israelis between the US and UK (they guess could still prohibit flights to/from Kuwait). Kuwaitis are lucky that are not citizens of a province of Iraq, due to the US and UK saving them.
This flight tends to be the cheapest option rather frequently; for whatever reason, that speaks to lots of people not even considering this airline.
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Old Sep 24, 2014, 4:26 pm
  #167  
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I didn't filter through the 11 pages of postings, but did Priceline show the codeshare information at any time during the booking process, or the post purchase receipt? If not, that is a violation of DOT regulations and they have been on the warpath recently over this issue - the fine is likely US$250,000 (even mom/pop agencies were hit by this), so please file a DOT complaint and push them to levy the codeshare violation fine against Priceline.
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Old Sep 24, 2014, 5:26 pm
  #168  
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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

"I didn't filter through the 11 pages of postings, but did Priceline show the codeshare information at any time during the booking process, or the post purchase receipt?"

See Post #17.
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Old Sep 24, 2014, 8:13 pm
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Originally Posted by relangford
Is it too simplistic for US and UK citizens to refuse to fly (i.e., boycott) Kuwait Airways until they become rational? If there were far fewer passengers JFK - LHR, the airline might decide it is OK to fly Israelis between the US and UK (they guess could still prohibit flights to/from Kuwait). Kuwaitis are lucky that are not citizens of a province of Iraq, due to the US and UK saving them.
I don't see how a successful boycott against KU could form. I think even the freedom fries idiots had a better chance to advance their cause. First the awareness of this situation is very low. You'll need spend a lot to raise that awareness, which is already a gigantic undertaking by itself. Second the majority of people, even if they were aware, will probably be too apathetic to participate - especially since KU flights are cheap.
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Old Sep 24, 2014, 10:17 pm
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Originally Posted by relangford
Is it too simplistic for US and UK citizens to refuse to fly (i.e., boycott) Kuwait Airways until they become rational?
Yes, too simplistic.

However it is reasonable for your government to deny them landing rights at US Airports until they discard their anti-semitic BS.
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Old Sep 24, 2014, 11:37 pm
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The PRC does not recognize ROC passports. Taiwanese need to get a PRC-issued document to travel to Mainland China.

However, CA can sell XXX-PEK-TPE. And they say on their website Taiwanese must have both "Chinese Taipei passport" and Mainland Travel Permit (to transit PEK).

CA is of course state-owned. But it recognizes documents of an unrecognized government.
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 1:29 am
  #172  
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Originally Posted by HkCaGu
CA is of course state-owned. But it recognizes documents of an unrecognized government.
I'm pretty sure that the government's share is down to around the 50% mark now.
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 8:18 am
  #173  
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Originally Posted by guv1976
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

"I didn't filter through the 11 pages of postings, but did Priceline show the codeshare information at any time during the booking process, or the post purchase receipt?"

See Post #17.
Guilty as charged

Well, the disclosure certainly meets the DOT regulation test - there is no requirement for a travel agent to inform a customer about an airline's nationality policies, although it makes good business sense to do so.

A brick/mortar agency would certainly be aware of this and guide their client, but when using an online agency, a certain degree of compliance burden is shifted to the customer.
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 5:18 pm
  #174  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
The DOT allows airlines to do what all common carriers with service to/from the US do: discriminate based on citizenship/nationality in determining which documents are and are not acceptable for international travel on their own planes.

If the DOT is going to absolutely ban carriers from discriminating on the basis of passenger citizenship when it comes to transport on their own international flights serving the U.S., then all common carriers with service to/from this country better be prepared for massive amounts of fines (from the U.S. and foreign governments) for transporting people, regardless of citizenship, who may or may not be admissible and/or eligible for transport under the laws of all involved countries (the sending country, the vehicle flag country, and the receiving country) for a given flight.
The actual rule is that the receiving country has to allow the passenger in, with whatever documentation the passenger provides. If someone isn't eligible to enter a particular country, then an airline does not have to (and should not) transport him there.

That's completely irrelevant to this issue, where OP's documentation was perfectly acceptable to all countries (departing, transit, and arriving) involved.

Originally Posted by Tchiowa
People keep missing the main point. As far as Kuwait is concerned, an Israeli passport is no more valid that a Justice League of America membership card from a comic book.

(Is that fair? IMO, no it isn't. But I don't rule the world. Yet.)

The airline has a rule that a passenger must present a valid passport. So does every other airline on the planet.
Kuwait has nothing to do with this. The passenger wasn't flying to or through Kuwait. Kuwait happens to own a lot of stock in the airline, that's all.

If Britain allowed people in with a JLA card, then an airline would be willing to fly you there when you showed yours.

Originally Posted by Tchiowa
The airline simply says that all passengers must show a valid passport. They don't consider his passport valid.

This has been going on with Israelis for a very long time. In addition, many people who travel to Israel carry 2 passports so that they don't have an Israeli stamp in one of them. Otherwise many Arab states won't let them in. The US will issue a second passport to its citizens for this.

Yes. The airline can say that he doesn't have a valid passport.
The airline is lying. The only entities whose beliefs on the subject matter are the arriving countries. They say the passport is valid.

Originally Posted by Tchiowa
I don't want to simply argue with you but I'm trying to make one point and I hope it will be accepted. They didn't not discriminate against the OP. Not on race, nation, or anything else. They have the same requirement for international carriage as virtually every airline: Passenger must be in possession of a valid passport. Since Kuwait doesn't recognize Israel their passports aren't considered valid. Fair? Not in my mind, no. Legal? Yes.
They discriminated on the basis of nationality. Any attempt to claim otherwise is completely and obviously bogus.

"We're not discriminating against you on the basis of race, we just don't consider any black people's passports to be valid." That claim is equally valid.

Originally Posted by Tchiowa
To use an analogy from their point of view, imagine if a survivalist group in the US that had declared its independence from the US (and there are several of those groups in existence now) started issuing "passports" from "The Sovereign Nation of Waco". No airline would accept that. Kuwait (and Saudi and many others) view an Israeli passport as the same thing: A completely invalid nonsensical piece of paper.
If Britain accepted the Waco passports for entry into Britain, then an airline should accept them as valid for travel to Britain.
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 5:50 pm
  #175  
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Originally Posted by sethb
Kuwait has nothing to do with this. The passenger wasn't flying to or through Kuwait. Kuwait happens to own a lot of stock in the airline, that's all.
The airline is domiciled in Kuwait and is therefore subject to Kuwaiti law. When Delta flies from AMS to BOM, they still have to follow certain US laws.

Originally Posted by sethb
If Britain allowed people in with a JLA card, then an airline would be willing to fly you there when you showed yours.
Not necessarily. For example, if you attempt to fly DUB-LHR on Ryanair and show your UK driver's license at check in, you will be denied boarding, even though the UK government accepts it as a valid document and you would have no problem on any other airline.

Originally Posted by sethb
They discriminated on the basis of nationality. Any attempt to claim otherwise is completely and obviously bogus.
If you accept that Israel is a nation, then yes. However, Kuwait, like any other country, has the right to decide which nations it recognizes as legitimate. If they do not recognize the nation, then they are not discriminating on the basis of nationality. Try to keep in mind that not everyone sees the world the same way you do, and your view is not automatically superior because you believe it to be so.

Originally Posted by sethb
"We're not discriminating against you on the basis of race, we just don't consider any black people's passports to be valid." That claim is equally valid.
That is not equally valid, because countries would have the same agency issuing passports to blacks and non-blacks. A foreign nation would have to either recognize the nation (and its passports) or not. Honoring some passports and not others, when they were issued by the same country, would be discrimination against the individual.

Originally Posted by sethb
If Britain accepted the Waco passports for entry into Britain, then an airline should accept them as valid for travel to Britain.
No, see example above.
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 6:49 pm
  #176  
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Originally Posted by sethb

If Britain allowed people in with a JLA card, then an airline would be willing to fly you there when you showed yours.
US airlines routinely prohibit passengers from flying from the US to Canada without a passport even when the Canadians haven't required a passport to admit the passenger. Thank the US Government for this still-ongoing absurdity under the US WHTI.

Originally Posted by gglave
Yes, too simplistic.

However it is reasonable for your government to deny them landing rights at US Airports until they discard their anti-semitic BS.
Anti-semitic airline? Who knows. The airline certainly doesn't refuse to fly all those who practice Judaism. Jewish Americans can fly it just fine on a US passport and do so from time to time, seemingly without incident most times.

The airline refuses to fly all people using just an Israeli passport. Even if the Israeli passport was issued to a Thai Buddhist, a Tamil Hindu, a Bengali Muslim, or an Armenian Christian, the person won't be able to fly this airline on an Israeli passport. Seems like it would be more accurately described as an anti-Israel discriminatory policy rather than as an example of an anti-Semitic policy.

Last edited by GUWonder; Sep 25, 2014 at 7:02 pm
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 8:37 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Seems like it would be more accurately described as an anti-Israel discriminatory policy rather than as an example of an anti-Semitic policy.
When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck.
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 10:20 pm
  #178  
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Originally Posted by gglave
When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck.
Given Jewish passengers with UK and/or US passports are allowed on this Kuwaiti flight, how is allowing such passengers evidence of anti-semitism? It doesn't walk, swim, or quack like that duck.
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Old Sep 26, 2014, 12:16 am
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Just wondering: how does a citizen of Crimea travel to/from the USA or UK? Russian passport? Ukraine passport? Stateless Person documents?
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Old Sep 26, 2014, 12:36 am
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Originally Posted by relangford
Just wondering: how does a citizen of Crimea travel to/from the USA or UK? Russian passport? Ukraine passport? Stateless Person documents?
Russian or Ukrainian passport unless in possession of an alternative travel document issued by a state or organization recognized by the US and/or UK as issuing valid travel documents for purposes of admissibility to the US and/or UK. If flying a Ukrainian or Russian carrier, it may be more complicated. I know the Ukrainian government wanted to make it more complicated by criminalizing possession or use of a Russian passport if the person were considered by it to be a Ukrainian national. Not sure if the current Ukrainian government came to its senses and stopped trying to advance that into law or rescinded it, but they threatened it.

Most people born in Crimea seem entitled to a Russian passport. At least a million Crimeans have been given Russian passports this year.
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