GUWonder

The Kuwait Airways' website doesn't ask for the purchaser's nationality. The point was that it is willing to sell tickets also to Israelis even as it systematically refuses to consider Israeli passports to be valid ID for the airline. "We'll take your money, but not necessarily you" is rather insulting and smacks of immoral business practice even if it is legal. It is systematic discrimination indeed.

Tchiowa

Ridiculous in your opinion. Not in theirs.

GUWonder

That is your opinion.

Ridiculous in fact? I didn't realize that a subjective word about the situation connotes an objective characterization.

LuxurySuite

[Unduly personalized text edited by Moderator.] She knew it was a Kuwaiti operated airline and claimed she didn't know about while you can see it was clear mentioned on the Kayak booking. Further she knew Kuwaiti will refuse her with an israeli passport. And while we would think she's in a stressful situation, she was here building her case. [Moderator edit.]

GUWonder

The ticket was presumably paid for by valid means and issued by the airline in return for being paid the going price for a filed fare.

I don't see a fraud case having any merit in this matter.

waxearwings

I'm pretty sure you are joking, but in case you are not, let me repeat some important info: Kuwait Airways does not state anywhere in their COC or on their website any specific policy regarding Israeli passport holders. For those who are suggesting that the Kuwaiti stance regarding Israel (i.e. cover their ears, shout 'I can't hear you' and pretend it doesn't exist) somehow excuses their (and OTA partners) failure to warn passengers about a flight between London and the US is laughable. The, "I don't believe it exists argument" would be an absolutely amazing legal loophole: forgot to specify something in a contract? No problem! Just wish it away.

mecabq

I stand corrected, maybe. Perhaps it is Kuwait Airlines' official policy not to transport passengers with Israeli passports, though the TIMATIC language that you quote doesn't exactly say that; it says that Israeli passport holders cannot visit Kuwait, even in transit, but it doesn't say that they can't get on a KU plane (e.g., on a fifth-freedom route). And waxearwings can't find any specific language prohibiting Israeli passport holders from flying on KU.

I've lived in the Gulf for years, so I understand what not recognizing Israel generally means, although different countries take it to varying degrees of stridency (and hypocrisy). EK, and I assume QR and GF, have no problem transporting Israeli passport holders even though they are government-owned airlines. SV, ME, I don't know -- I would be curious to hear.

cbn42

So if I show up for a flight with my Free State of Jefferson passport, the airline has to board me because their COC doesn't say otherwise?

This argument would only work if the matter doesn't actually exist under applicable law. Since Israel doesn't exist under Kuwaiti law, the argument is possible.

This, of course, leads to the fundamental question: to what extent does Kuwaiti law apply to this flight, which does not touch Kuwait?

As a practical matter, it seems like there are three laws: the law of the origin, the law of the destination, and the law of the carrier's domicile. The most restrictive seems to apply.

This thread was a good read.

LuxurySuite

She's aware of KA's policy (this is all known among Israeli people), but still booked the flight tickets operated by KA. So she can get some compensation. [Unduly personalized text deleted per FT Rules.]

LuxurySuite

I am not joking. It's widely known among Israeli people that Kuwaiti doesn't allow them to board their planes. She's bought that tickets in purpose to claim compensation. [Moderator edit to remove personalized text.]

Tchiowa

I agree with you that I don't think this is a deliberate fraud. But the whole recognition thing of Israel is very real in this world. Kuwait is not the only government who doesn't recognize Israel. And that isn't a "I don't believe it exists", but rather a very specific legal statement that is recognized by other nations. Prior to Nixon, for example, the US didn't recognize China. Today, the US doesn't recognize Taiwan.

And keep in mind that Kuwait Air is an arm of the Kuwaiti government.

GUWonder

Not everyone in the world is as sophisticated and equally knowledgeable as some others about all that goes on in this regard.

An Air India codeshares was supposedly purchased, and not everyone pays equally great attention to all the details about operating carriers.

Even if the people buying or traveling on such tickets are aware of the issue in advance of purchase and/or attempted travel and are doing this to seek compensation or to set up things to more strongly lobby against this kind of situation being possible, I'm not sure why that would be called fraud. It doesn't strike me as being illegal in the US.

You want to go where?

There was nothing in the thread which suggested that:

a) she was aware of the fact that she was booking a flight operated by Kuwait Airways. Quite the opposite, she says she did not know until she arrived at the airport. You may not believe this, but I take this statement at face value.

b) she was aware that Kuwait Airways will not transport people carrying an Israeli passport between two countries, both of which accept Israeli passports, even without a transit in Kuwait.

c) that all Israelis know that Kuwait Airways doesn't transport people between two countries (without transit in Kuwait) that accept Israeli passports. I would assume that most Israelis are aware that they are not admissible to Kuwait on an Israeli passport. I would not assume that they are aware that they can't step onto a Kuwait Airways flight between two non-Kuwaiti locations.

If anything, I would say it was Kuwait Airways that was perpretrating a fraud by selling a ticket with hidden conditions.

tjl

However, the US does not automatically deem passports issued by the Republic of China (Taiwan) or Palestinian Authority to be invalid. In the Kuwait - Israel case, it is more than just mere non-recognition that is Kuwait government policy.

GUWonder

All airlines have "hidden conditions" of some sort. For example, no US airline has ever highlighted the condition, during the booking process, that the passenger with a valid ticket and valid ID may be denied travel due to a hidden blacklist. I wouldn't call it fraud, but I would call it customer-unfriendly -- no less because the airlines don't really lobby hard against this kind of stuff; and more so because the airline labor unions are often fans of the dog and pony show in the name of "security" or who knows what as long as it hits the passengers and not them. This situation isn't really that different: not fraud, but customer-unfriendly.