rmb.flk

In response to my previous post about not going to Argentina because of the territorial claim over my country in its Constitution:

One of the earlier posts expressed the view: "If you don't want me in your country, I certainly don't want to spend my money in your country."

I think the same applies to "If you want MY country, I certainly don't want to spend my money in your country."

I interpreted the original question literally by referring to the law of Argentina but what that law stands for and how it is backed up in practical deeds are daily realities here.

KurtOlsson: Thanks for backing me up and the pleasure of those beers was mutual!

TA

Oh, that is fine. I was just curious to know how this law has translated into actual effects to anyone at present, such that it makes you not want to travel there.

Laylla

I will not be visiting Aruba, and especially not taking my 26 year old daughter on vacation there, because in Aruba, murderers aren't prosecuted or made to disclose the location of the victim's body, if said murderer is the son of a judge.

Forrest Bump

Do they even murder in Aruba?
Thought speciality was other kind of crimes.

aroundtheworld76

Tragic as that case is, you'll be skipping a lot more places than Aruba if that's your criteria.

zcat18

-Will not visit Aruba on principle after they let that Van der Sloot monster walk.

-Probably would not visit Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, or Kuwait, since I am a frequent visitor to Israel and their governments are hostile to it (and to Jews in general).

Incidentally, I've never had an issue entering or exiting Israel, even though my passport contains stamps and visas from a number of countries that do not have diplomatic relations with Israel (Indonesia, Malaysia, etc.).

rankourabu

Passport stamps are only part of the story. Being non-Jewish was a major reason for my harassment while entering as a tourist.

I'd never go back. I've gotten secondary in the USA before I got Nexus/GE, and it was nothing compared to Israeli treatment. The only country (out of 120+ visited) where my religion mattered to the immigration personnel.

M60_to_LGA

Eh, sorry - your religion as a cause for scrutiny doesn't ring true to me. I know lots of non-Jews who have gone to Israel as tourists, and who have even lived there, and they weren't "harrassed" (whatever that means, exactly - can you provide details?) for not being Jewish.

You may have just encountered someone who was having a very bad day, or who was just mean, or there may be other factors at work in your questioning. But religion is highly unlikely to be one of them.

Sometimes people are selected for extra scrutiny based on god only knows what. One of my good friends (US-born nominal Christian, whose mannerisms quite honestly suggest early Woody Allen) was living and working in Israel for a couple of years along with his wife (UK/Egyptian dual citizen, born in London, theoretically Muslim). They both had legit residency visas. He said he always came in for more scrutiny than she did.

zcat18

Yeah, I've heard that secondary in Israel is no joke. I once went to Israel in a group with a girl--also Jewish--who had to travel with some specialized medical equipment that ultimately bought her a full day of interrogation by LY officials at JFK. Assuming you're on typical business or leisure travel and don't have unusual equipment in tow, being Jewish goes a long way toward minimizing the security experience. I also get the sense that American Christians don't have much trouble. Incidentally, India also now requires that you disclose religion on its visa application, but I've had no trouble actually obtaining a visa or entering the country.

And yes, just like passport stamps, religion also is only one factor of many that is considered, or not, depending on a number of others both known and classified. Also, everyone has a different tolerance for security, immigration rigamarole, etc., so what might be acceptable to one traveler could be completely insufferable for another and cause him/her not to return to a place. Simply being non-Jewish will not, on its own, cause someone to be sent to secondary at TLV. That said, I've heard mixed things on this from non-Jews who have had issues, and I do get the sense that the combination of being Jewish and American generally places you in a low-risk "fast-track" bucket.

beta1607

I wouldn't visit Turkey due to Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code which makes it a crime to "insult Turkishness" and speaking truthfully about genocides committed by the Ottoman Empire is grounds for arrest.

PTravel

A quick review of your posts in OMNI/PR reveals your vehement anti-Israel bias. Accordingly, I simply do not believe, for a minute, either your conclusion, or you description of the conduct upon which it is based.

Others' mileage may vary, but your prior posts about Israel preclude any objectivity.

MSPeconomist

I'm reluctant to go near DXB because of how the gang rape of a Starwood hotel employee was handled, although it apparently happened in a different "province" from Dubai. The victim was denied medical care and jailed.

mandolino

I'm only one of the many non-jews entering Israel who've not been hassled especially.
If I had to pick out obvious groups that seemed to be getting special attention (as in extensive questioning, not especially nasty from what I could see & hear), from the small samples on my infrequent visits where I could see/hear what was going on, I'd say they were:
Arabs from neighbouring countries (mostly Egyptians who seemed to be regular business visitors)
Fundamentalist Christians, mostly American and some Russian. The questioning seemed to be along the lines of warning them to stay out of dangerous situations .
Ultra-orthodox Jews - there seems to be mutual mistrust between them and officials of the Israeli state.

zcat18

That's a shame. I stay away from Omni/PR so was not aware of a history of anti-Israel bias on the part of that poster.

That said, I think YMMV is the right philosophy here. Israel or any other country can and should institute whatever security policies and apparatus it feels best protects its residents and visitors from harm. The onus is on the individual traveler to decide whether or not s/he wishes to visit and be subject to those policies. Personally, I have no problem with how Israel handles security and feel that general perception of the Israeli immigration/customs process as particularly difficult is largely overblown. However, it's no skin off my back if someone else decides to stay away for whatever their personal reasons, misguided or not. Hopefully this isn't venturing too deeply into PR territory.

Andy Big Bear

Yah, I don't know of any of the members of my Church who have been on a bit of spiritual tourism have ever had a problem visiting Israel.