Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Jan 18, 2015, 4:47 pm
#6721
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9. It used to be that only Eastern Airlines flew into Canada’s capitol city of Ottawa from Syracuse and New York City. In late 1988 the only EA flight into YOW is from Baltimore. A different airline now serves the SYR-YOW route while yet another airline serves the JFK-YOW route. Identify each of these airlines and – if you like – the aircraft utilized on each service.
YOW-SYR was initiated by Empire Airlines in 1984 with F28s after quite a bit of fighting for the route. The route was continued by Piedmont after Empire merged with it and continued later by US Air after it absorbed Piedmont. In 1988, it was PI and I believe still flown with F28s.
YOW-JFK was initiated by Pilgrim in 1981 with F27. Pilgrim was acquired by Business Express in 1986, after an unfortunate accident on another route. Under their new owners, Pilgrim continued the route until they suspended it in early 1987. At that point First Air announced YOW-JFK with 727s, but I don't think they ever started flying. Rather, US Air began flying the route a few months later and was still flying it in late 1988; I'd guess they were flying DC-9s on the route.
Not only correct but supremely detailed. Thanks, Indelaware! I should note that per the schedule I've referenced, US flew the JFK-YOW route with a BAC-111. This had to have been in the twilight of BAC-111 service with US.
YOW-SYR was initiated by Empire Airlines in 1984 with F28s after quite a bit of fighting for the route. The route was continued by Piedmont after Empire merged with it and continued later by US Air after it absorbed Piedmont. In 1988, it was PI and I believe still flown with F28s.
YOW-JFK was initiated by Pilgrim in 1981 with F27. Pilgrim was acquired by Business Express in 1986, after an unfortunate accident on another route. Under their new owners, Pilgrim continued the route until they suspended it in early 1987. At that point First Air announced YOW-JFK with 727s, but I don't think they ever started flying. Rather, US Air began flying the route a few months later and was still flying it in late 1988; I'd guess they were flying DC-9s on the route.
Not only correct but supremely detailed. Thanks, Indelaware! I should note that per the schedule I've referenced, US flew the JFK-YOW route with a BAC-111. This had to have been in the twilight of BAC-111 service with US.
Jan 18, 2015, 4:58 pm
#6722
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The service was actually operated by United via an intermediate stop at Chicago O'Hare as referenced above by Seat 2A.
Here are the scheds....
UA 993: Toronto (YYZ) 11:25a - 12:01p Chicago (ORD) 1:15p - 6:20p Honolulu (HNL)
Op: Daily except Tuesdays and Wednesdays
Equip: 747
UA 990: Honolulu (HNL) 6:00p - 6:00a Chicago (ORD) 7:30a - 9:49a Toronto (YYZ)
Op: Daily except Mondays and Tuesdays
Equip: 747
UA 990: Honolulu (HNL) 6:00p - 6:00a Chicago (ORD) 7:30a - 9:44a Toronto (YYZ)
Op: Mondays and Tuesdays only
Equip: 747 HNL-ORD, Super DC8 (D8S) ORD-YYZ (scheduled equipment change at ORD)
Jan 18, 2015, 7:37 pm
#6723
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10: ANC<-->SEA operators in 1988 with the 72S
let's stick with AS, DL, and UA; replace WC with NW
let's stick with AS, DL, and UA; replace WC with NW
Jan 18, 2015, 9:23 pm
#6724
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10. In late 1988 four airlines served the Anchorage to Seattle market with a total of 14 daily and 2 daily except Saturday flights. Identify the airlines and what was similar about all 16 flights.
I'm going with Alaska, Delta, United, and Wien Air ... all with 727-200s
Every bit of your answer is correct with the exception of one airline. Care to have a gander at which one?
Let's stick with AS, DL, and UA; replace WC with NW
jrl767, you Da Man! ^
I'm going with Alaska, Delta, United, and Wien Air ... all with 727-200s
Every bit of your answer is correct with the exception of one airline. Care to have a gander at which one?
Let's stick with AS, DL, and UA; replace WC with NW
jrl767, you Da Man! ^
Jan 18, 2015, 9:27 pm
#6725
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Here be the unanswered questions:
The following four questions are based upon schedules published in a pocket OAG from autumn 1977
1. Identify all of the U.S. airlines operating scheduled flights with the DC-9-10 in 1977 A N S W E R E D
2. Of those airlines, which offered First Class aboard the DC-9-10 in 1977? A N S W E R E D
3. What was the longest scheduled flight within the continental U.S. being flown with the 727-100? We’re looking for route and airline.
6. Based upon total length – not passenger capacity – what was the longest airliner flying scheduled flights out of Tucson, Arizona in late 1977?
The following two questions are based upon schedules published in a pocket OAG from late 1988
8. If you lived in Yakima, WA in late 1988, only one airline offered jet service to your airport. Identify the airline and the aircraft used. If you like, you may also have a guess at which city those jets flew to. A N S W E R E D
11. Two airlines offered nonstop service between the U.S. and Mexico with the Convair 580. Identify both airlines and the single international route each served.
Bonus Questions
B-001: Per the same 1988 OAG utilized above, identify the only airline to operate 737-200s between SAN and LAX with six daily departures - all of them 73S equipment.
B-002: Per the same 1988 OAG utilized above, identify the three different airlines that operated nonstop 747 service between Vancouver, BC and the U.S. cities of San Francisco, Los Angeles and Honolulu. One unique airline per each city, please.
The following four questions are based upon schedules published in a pocket OAG from autumn 1977
1. Identify all of the U.S. airlines operating scheduled flights with the DC-9-10 in 1977 A N S W E R E D
2. Of those airlines, which offered First Class aboard the DC-9-10 in 1977? A N S W E R E D
3. What was the longest scheduled flight within the continental U.S. being flown with the 727-100? We’re looking for route and airline.
6. Based upon total length – not passenger capacity – what was the longest airliner flying scheduled flights out of Tucson, Arizona in late 1977?
The following two questions are based upon schedules published in a pocket OAG from late 1988
8. If you lived in Yakima, WA in late 1988, only one airline offered jet service to your airport. Identify the airline and the aircraft used. If you like, you may also have a guess at which city those jets flew to. A N S W E R E D
11. Two airlines offered nonstop service between the U.S. and Mexico with the Convair 580. Identify both airlines and the single international route each served.
Bonus Questions
B-001: Per the same 1988 OAG utilized above, identify the only airline to operate 737-200s between SAN and LAX with six daily departures - all of them 73S equipment.
B-002: Per the same 1988 OAG utilized above, identify the three different airlines that operated nonstop 747 service between Vancouver, BC and the U.S. cities of San Francisco, Los Angeles and Honolulu. One unique airline per each city, please.
Last edited by Seat 2A; Jan 19, 2015 at 8:13 pm
Jan 19, 2015, 9:49 am
#6726
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how 'bout Horizon Air operating a Fokker F-28 SEA<-->YKM, perhaps via Spokane (GEG)
Jan 19, 2015, 10:53 am
#6727
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1. Identify all of the U.S. airlines operating scheduled flights with the DC-9-10 in (autumn) 1977
Continental, Eastern, Hughes Airwest, Ozark, Texas International, TWA
A good start, J, but your list is missing two airlines. Additionally, one of the airlines you've listed had discontinued flights with its DC-9-15RCs by 1977.
3. What was the longest scheduled flight within the continental U.S. being flown with the 727-100? We’re looking for route and airline.
IIRC, some time ago we were discussing long-haul 727-100 trips: National ran eastbound redeyes from LAX and San Francisco to Miami at various times in the late 1970s and early 1980s, so I'll go with SFO as the answer to this question.
I remember the discussion, with Pan Am doing the honors at the time. Additionally, Northeast used to fly 727-100s nonstop from FLL into LAX in both directions. Per the schedule I've referenced however, there are no nonstop transcons (I checked eastbound flights from the west coast into the DC area and various Florida cities) however San Francisco is the western terminus of the flight we're looking for.
8. If you lived in Yakima, WA in late 1988, only one airline offered jet service to your airport. Identify the airline and the aircraft used. If you like, you may also have a guess at which city those jets flew to.
How 'bout Horizon Air operating a Fokker F-28 SEA<-->YKM, perhaps via Spokane (GEG)
Horizon was operating F28s at the time, though not into Yakima. That said, I'm referencing a pocket OAG, and while it's almost a half inch thick it may not include some shorter intrastate flights. As such, I checked schedules into Spokane and could only find F28 flights from Seattle. Spokane was a mini-hub for Horizon but all of the flights into Portland, Idaho and Montana were operated with SWM or DH8 equipment.
Continental, Eastern, Hughes Airwest, Ozark, Texas International, TWA
A good start, J, but your list is missing two airlines. Additionally, one of the airlines you've listed had discontinued flights with its DC-9-15RCs by 1977.
3. What was the longest scheduled flight within the continental U.S. being flown with the 727-100? We’re looking for route and airline.
IIRC, some time ago we were discussing long-haul 727-100 trips: National ran eastbound redeyes from LAX and San Francisco to Miami at various times in the late 1970s and early 1980s, so I'll go with SFO as the answer to this question.
I remember the discussion, with Pan Am doing the honors at the time. Additionally, Northeast used to fly 727-100s nonstop from FLL into LAX in both directions. Per the schedule I've referenced however, there are no nonstop transcons (I checked eastbound flights from the west coast into the DC area and various Florida cities) however San Francisco is the western terminus of the flight we're looking for.
8. If you lived in Yakima, WA in late 1988, only one airline offered jet service to your airport. Identify the airline and the aircraft used. If you like, you may also have a guess at which city those jets flew to.
How 'bout Horizon Air operating a Fokker F-28 SEA<-->YKM, perhaps via Spokane (GEG)
Horizon was operating F28s at the time, though not into Yakima. That said, I'm referencing a pocket OAG, and while it's almost a half inch thick it may not include some shorter intrastate flights. As such, I checked schedules into Spokane and could only find F28 flights from Seattle. Spokane was a mini-hub for Horizon but all of the flights into Portland, Idaho and Montana were operated with SWM or DH8 equipment.
Last edited by Seat 2A; Jan 19, 2015 at 2:07 pm
Jan 19, 2015, 11:26 am
#6728
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DC-9-10 operators in 1977:
- I know I missed Southern, but can't place the other ... perhaps Delta had a couple before standardizing on the -30
- "discontinued operations with the -15RC" points to Continental, since I think all the other operators save Ozark had the standard -14 variant, and as we know from yesterday OZ kept theirs until the TWA merger in the mid 1980s
Jan 19, 2015, 12:30 pm
#6729
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UA 990: Honolulu (HNL) 6:00p - 6:00a Chicago (ORD) 7:30a - 9:44a Toronto (YYZ)
Op: Mondays and Tuesdays only
Equip: 747 HNL-ORD, Super DC8 (D8S) ORD-YYZ (scheduled equipment change at ORD)
Op: Mondays and Tuesdays only
Equip: 747 HNL-ORD, Super DC8 (D8S) ORD-YYZ (scheduled equipment change at ORD)
Jan 19, 2015, 1:25 pm
#6730
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These "through flights" by US carriers which actually involve an aircraft change at an intermediate point have long perplexed, or worse, passengers from Britain where the flight goes through some port of entry. London to Orlando has long been a favourite for this, United (onetime Continental) through Newark, TWA even used to do it through St Louis. Because if there is some hold-up, either the inbound is late or immigration is busy, the ongoing flight, which sometimes is even leaving from a different terminal (notably flights through ORD) does not wait. What does the US market think of this ? It's almost as if there is a shortage of flight numbers. TWA were a longtime disciple of this approach, back to Constellation days in the 1950s, with the little % symbol in the timetable the only clue.
Here's an example from a 1979 National Airlines system timetable.....
New Orleans, Louisiana to Frankfurt, West Germany:
Leave: 1:40p
Arrive: 7:10a
Flight: 10
Aircraft: DC-10 (National made sure their wide body aircraft appeared in bold typeface. Other schedules in this timetable operated with the 727 and 72S made no mention of the equipment type.)
Frequency: Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays only
Stops or Connecting City: One Stop
Sounds like direct, no change of plane DC-10 service three days a week from MSY to FRA, doesn't it?
However, a check of an OAG that was issued back at the same time when this sched appeared in the National timetable reveals that NA 10 was actually operated with a Boeing 727-100 from MSY to MIA. So one had to change planes in Miami.
This is only one example as I recall this practice became rather widespread at one point with several other U.S. based airlines as well as WHBM notes.
Last edited by jlemon; Jan 19, 2015 at 1:32 pm
Jan 19, 2015, 2:15 pm
#6731
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Originally Posted by jrl767
[B]1. Identify all of the U.S. airlines operating scheduled flights with the DC-9-10 in (autumn) 1977
Continental, Eastern, Hughes Airwest, Ozark, Texas International, TWA
A good start, J, but your list is missing two airlines. Additionally, one of the airlines you've listed had discontinued flights with its DC-9-15RCs by 1977.
That's right (except for Delta). So thus far we've got Eastern, Hughes Airwest, Ozark, Southern, Texas International and TWA. The airline we're missing operated only shorter flights with its 9s in 1977.
Continental, Eastern, Hughes Airwest, Ozark, Texas International, TWA
A good start, J, but your list is missing two airlines. Additionally, one of the airlines you've listed had discontinued flights with its DC-9-15RCs by 1977.
- I know I missed Southern, but can't place the other ... perhaps Delta had a couple before standardizing on the -30
- "discontinued operations with the -15RC" points to Continental, since I think all the other operators save Ozark had the standard -14 variant, and as we know from yesterday OZ kept theirs until the TWA merger in the mid 1980s
That's right (except for Delta). So thus far we've got Eastern, Hughes Airwest, Ozark, Southern, Texas International and TWA. The airline we're missing operated only shorter flights with its 9s in 1977.
Jan 19, 2015, 3:55 pm
#6733
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ah, I think jlemon indeed filled in the blank: Horizon and Midway weren't yet in existence, and Hawaiian had upgauged to the -30
and that said, let's start the bidding on Q2 (F service on the little DC9s) -- two for sure:
• Eastern
• Texas International
I was about to include TW, but remembered seeing old timetables that only showed Y
I'll also guess that Ozark offered F service; I wouldn't be surprised to hear from the experts that they indeed did, but neither would I be surprised to hear that they didn't
and that said, let's start the bidding on Q2 (F service on the little DC9s) -- two for sure:
• Eastern
• Texas International
I was about to include TW, but remembered seeing old timetables that only showed Y
I'll also guess that Ozark offered F service; I wouldn't be surprised to hear from the experts that they indeed did, but neither would I be surprised to hear that they didn't
Jan 19, 2015, 5:05 pm
#6734
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How about US Air with DC-9-80s, Yakima to SEA, a route inherited from PSA? This would have been just before US cancelled the route, unable to achieve a profit on the route with such a large plane. Not too long later, US started to close down the PS system wholesale. Sad. One wonders how their west coast business would have fared if Ed Coldony not only kept the smile on PSA's birds, but also supplemented the fleet with a smiling PSA Commuter fleet similar to that which was so successful for US in the east, the Allegheny Commuter operation. Similar ideas later fared well with Alaska/Horizon and United/United Express out of Yakima and several other western cities.
Last edited by Indelaware; Jan 19, 2015 at 5:31 pm
Jan 19, 2015, 6:21 pm
#6735
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as a longtime TWA aficionado, making approximately monthly trips between SEA and the LA area between mid-1984 and mid-1987, I was thrilled when TW and PS announced reciprocity between their frequent flyer programs
having relied on Mohawk (and then Allegheny/US Air) for five years of getting between DC and Ithaca NY in my college days, I was thoroughly un-thrilled with the US-PSA merger
having relied on Mohawk (and then Allegheny/US Air) for five years of getting between DC and Ithaca NY in my college days, I was thoroughly un-thrilled with the US-PSA merger