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Old Jan 28, 2015, 9:11 pm
  #6811  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Ah yes, the operators of what was once the largest Heron fleet in the world, each aircraft painted a different colour.

However, the little De Havilland Gypsy engines of the Heron were not radials, nor were the Lycomings of its Riley conversion so I'm afraid for this question we'll need to have another go.
Well, I must confess that I'm not quite sure just what a radial engine is and am looking forward to the correct answer!
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Old Jan 28, 2015, 9:19 pm
  #6812  
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think DC-4/6/7, Constellation, Stratocruiser ...
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Old Jan 28, 2015, 10:22 pm
  #6813  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
Well, I must confess that I'm not quite sure just what a radial engine is and am looking forward to the correct answer!
OK, just before you leave ...

http://www.aussieairliners.org/short.../2545.779.html

It was the last, ever, big Shorts flying boat service. If you want to see the aircraft nowadays, it's back here in Britain, at the museum in Southampton where it looks out on the departure point for all those pre-WW2 and post-WW2 flying boat services around the world.

If you find the departure point of the service in the Caribbean, JL, maybe you can give it a little wave from those of us who follow their exploits around the world.

This aircraft had an interesting life. It did a doubtless expensive charter from Australia in the early 1970s to various South Pacific islands, the first being Lord Howe Island, where the passengers stayed overnight with the aircraft anchored outside. Alas, the wind got up, it slipped it's moorings, and was blown on the rocks on the far side of the bay. There must have been some interesting Aussie expressions as they woke up next morning and viewed the wreckage, and the end of that particular trip ! Never mind, it was eventually recovered, repaired, and on it went.

Now then, what about

And a bonus, what similar 4-engined aircraft had previously held down these runs in the late 1960s ?

Last edited by WHBM; Jan 28, 2015 at 10:49 pm
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Old Jan 29, 2015, 5:55 am
  #6814  
 
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Radial engine

Originally Posted by jlemon
Well, I must confess that I'm not quite sure just what a radial engine is and am looking forward to the correct answer!
Wikipedia: "The radial engine is a reciprocating type internal combustion engine configuration in which the cylinders "radiate" outward from a central crankcase like the spokes of a wheel. It resembles a stylized star when viewed from the front, and is called a "star engine" (German Sternmotor, French moteur en étoile) in some languages. The radial configuration was very commonly used for aircraft engines before turbine engines became predominant."

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Old Jan 29, 2015, 8:23 am
  #6815  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
OK, just before you leave ...

http://www.aussieairliners.org/short.../2545.779.html

It was the last, ever, big Shorts flying boat service. If you want to see the aircraft nowadays, it's back here in Britain, at the museum in Southampton where it looks out on the departure point for all those pre-WW2 and post-WW2 flying boat services around the world.

If you find the departure point of the service in the Caribbean, JL, maybe you can give it a little wave from those of us who follow their exploits around the world.

This aircraft had an interesting life. It did a doubtless expensive charter from Australia in the early 1970s to various South Pacific islands, the first being Lord Howe Island, where the passengers stayed overnight with the aircraft anchored outside. Alas, the wind got up, it slipped it's moorings, and was blown on the rocks on the far side of the bay. There must have been some interesting Aussie expressions as they woke up next morning and viewed the wreckage, and the end of that particular trip ! Never mind, it was eventually recovered, repaired, and on it went.
Thank you, sir, and thanks to kochleffel as well!

I do remember seeing Grumman Mallard amphibians converted to turboprop power operating from the St. Thomas harbor at Charlotte Amalie during my first visit to the USVI over 20 years ago. I also wonder if the Shorts flying boat operated by Antilles Air Boats arrived and departed from the same location on St. Thomas used by Virgin Islands Seaplane Shuttle and their Mallard aircraft (which they called the "Tropicbird").....

Anyway, I'll be sure to issue a toast with suitable rum drink in hand should I ascertain this location!

Last edited by jlemon; Jan 29, 2015 at 10:35 am Reason: Correction! I believe Virgin Islands Seaplane Shuttle operated Grumman Mallards converted to turboprop power, not the Goose!
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Old Jan 29, 2015, 8:59 am
  #6816  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
I've never flown on an E190 but would very much like to do so. I'll bet it's a comfortable ride on the flight from LCY to EDI. And, of course, this discussion engenders yet another bonus question:

In early 2007, if one wanted to travel from London City Airport to Edinburgh, what airline would you be flying on and on board what kind of aircraft? And please note you would have a choice of air carriers and equipment on the LCY-EDI route at this time.
I'll just pick this one up.

In 2007 the two carriers from LCY to Edinburgh (long the most popular LCY route) were British Airways and Scot Airways. BA were using their 146-RJs at the time, while Scot, who had a longer pedigree on the route, ran a charming personal-service, business-oriented, high frequency operation with Dornier 328 turboprops. In 2007 they were starting to feel they were losing business to upstart BA, so they hired a CityJet 146 for a couple of the most popular flights as well. Financially, this didn't work out for them, and after about 6 months they went back to an all-Dornier operation. They carried on until recent times, but of the couple who founded the airline, boss and chief pilot Roy Suckling died, and although his wife Merlyn kept it going for a while her heart had really gone out from it, and the company was sold to Loganair. They don't do their own schedules through London City any more, although they worked for a while under the CityJet branding. They were always into high-end executive charters as well (major football teams etc), for which a 31-seater was ideal, and you still see them around.

I could write a lot about the route, particularly about Scot Airways, but see I've already done so, so from a trip report, way back in 2002, here it is :

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-...uite-long.html
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Old Feb 9, 2015, 9:27 am
  #6817  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
I'll just pick this one up.

In 2007 the two carriers from LCY to Edinburgh (long the most popular LCY route) were British Airways and Scot Airways. BA were using their 146-RJs at the time, while Scot, who had a longer pedigree on the route, ran a charming personal-service, business-oriented, high frequency operation with Dornier 328 turboprops. In 2007 they were starting to feel they were losing business to upstart BA, so they hired a CityJet 146 for a couple of the most popular flights as well. Financially, this didn't work out for them, and after about 6 months they went back to an all-Dornier operation. They carried on until recent times, but of the couple who founded the airline, boss and chief pilot Roy Suckling died, and although his wife Merlyn kept it going for a while her heart had really gone out from it, and the company was sold to Loganair. They don't do their own schedules through London City any more, although they worked for a while under the CityJet branding. They were always into high-end executive charters as well (major football teams etc), for which a 31-seater was ideal, and you still see them around.

I could write a lot about the route, particularly about Scot Airways, but see I've already done so, so from a trip report, way back in 2002, here it is :

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-...uite-long.html
Absolutely correct, of course....
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Old Feb 9, 2015, 9:47 am
  #6818  
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Originally Posted by jlemon

It's 1976 and on this particular date, you are in Fairbanks, Alaska where you've just completed a project as a consultant. You have been assisted in this work by a colleague and very good friend who is a resident of Vancouver, B.C. He actually drove up to Fairbanks in his new Land Rover and now it's time for him to return to that beautiful city in B.C. and home.

"So", he says to you, "you up for a little drive down the Alaska Highway? I've checked the weather and it is actually forecast to be fairly benign for the next week or so....no blizzards or other exciting conditions, it appears." Ah, a road trip, you think. Why not? Then the phone rings. It's concerning a possible new project in Honolulu; however, the job has not quite firmed up yet and would you be available on fairly short notice to fly to HNL for a meeting if it does? Well, of course.

So you explain the situation to him. "I may have to jump on a plane and fly to Honolulu. Now we both know that CP Air has daily 747 service plus four Super DC8 flights a week from Vancouver. So the trick will be getting to YVR should I need to bail out during our road trip and fly to Vancouver in order to catch a flight to HNL."

You then ascertain there are no less than nine airports which have scheduled jet service on your general route of travel by vehicle from Fairbanks via the most direct route on the Alaska Highway in the Yukon Territory and British Columbia and then via the main provincial route in B.C. on down to Vancouver.

So here's the quiz item: identify all nine airports where you can conveniently catch a direct flight to Vancouver should you need to do so as well as the airline that operated each of these flights and the jet aircraft type you'll be flying on
. ANSWERED
And we are back from our sailing trip in the British Virgin Islands. All in all, it was a wonderful experience, except for very rough weather on the first day as we were attempting to sail into the wind that day....and seawater cascading over the bow always gets my attention. Thankfully, the weather then calmed down appreciably and we either sailed or motored our 50 foot catamaran around the islands of Tortola, Virgin Gorda, Jost Van Dyke and Norman Island. We really had a lovely time.

Unfortunately, on the way home yesterday, our journey became a bit of a shambles on American, which began with a delay caused by a mechanical issue with our originating Boeing 757-200 flight from St. Thomas. According to our Captain, AA only has one mechanic based in STT and Sunday was his day off (although he was on call). So it took awhile to find him and get the situation resolved. We then departed quite late. Of course, we missed our connecting flight in MIA to DFW and could not get seats on the next two flights on this routing. We even tried to fly from MIA to MSY but were not permitted to do this either. When we did finally arrive at DFW, I found out my seat to LFT on the last AA Eagle evening flight was not confirmed. Fortunately, at the last possible second, my name was called and I got the last seat. However, after a 19 hour travel day, our three checked bags have yet to show up in LFT......

Not AA's finest effort (there were a number of other discrepancies as well) but enough of this rant! Let's get back to the OTA&AQ!

The above quiz item remains unanswered. So I'll let it sit out there for a few more days. And I should have a new batch ready to go by this weekend.

Last edited by jlemon; Feb 11, 2015 at 8:55 pm
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Old Feb 9, 2015, 10:31 am
  #6819  
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Originally Posted by WHBM

http://www.aussieairliners.org/short.../2545.779.html

It was the last, ever, big Shorts flying boat service. If you want to see the aircraft nowadays, it's back here in Britain, at the museum in Southampton where it looks out on the departure point for all those pre-WW2 and post-WW2 flying boat services around the world.

If you find the departure point of the service in the Caribbean, JL, maybe you can give it a little wave from those of us who follow their exploits around the world.
Well, I think we may have....that is, unless there was another seaplane base on St. Thomas in the past.

Currently, Seaborne Airlines operates seaplane service between St. Thomas and St. Croix with DHC-6 Twin Otter aircraft on floats. In St. Thomas, these flights operate from the Charlotte Amalie Harbor Seaplane Base (there's a writeup concerning this facility on wikipedia). This seaplane base is located adjacent to the marine ferry terminal in the harbor. The top portion of the ferry terminal is home to a restaurant with full bar with a good view of the harbor. Prior to our departure on the ferry to the West End of Tortola and Soper's Hole (where we then picked up the catamaran), we visited the outside deck of this establishment for several rum-based drinks known locally as "painkillers" (and this concoction is aptly named). And just before we headed downstairs to catch our vessel, a Twin Otter on floats majestically soared by just overhead for a STOL landing in the harbor.....
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Old Feb 9, 2015, 10:39 am
  #6820  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
Currently, Seaborne Airlines operates seaplane service between St. Thomas and St. Croix with DHC-6 Twin Otter aircraft on floats. In St. Thomas, these flights operate from the Charlotte Amalie Harbor Seaplane Base (there's a writeup concerning this facility on wikipedia). This seaplane base is located adjacent to the marine ferry terminal in the harbor. The top portion of the ferry terminal is home to a restaurant with full bar with a good view of the harbor. Prior to our departure on the ferry to the West End of Tortola and Soper's Hole (where we then picked up the catamaran), we visited the outside deck of this establishment for several rum-based drinks known locally as "painkillers" (and this concoction is aptly named). And just before we headed downstairs to catch our vessel, a Twin Otter on floats majestically soared by just overhead for a STOL landing in the harbor.....
I have been watching them come and go just off our gallery on St. Croix for the last two weeks ( and one just came by, I think they are doing touch and go today). I was surprised to find they only have two but the round trip is short so it can seem like a lot more. It makes an amusing diversion, though it is bit disconcerting when one passes just overhead when you are out snorkeling!

Reflecting the previous post, I suspect that AA have zero mechanics at STX and we would have to wait for your guy to come over from STT!
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Old Feb 9, 2015, 12:05 pm
  #6821  
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Originally Posted by jlemon
Currently, Seaborne Airlines operates seaplane service between St. Thomas and St. Croix with DHC-6 Twin Otter aircraft on floats. In St. Thomas, these flights operate from the Charlotte Amalie Harbor Seaplane Base ...
Originally Posted by jlemon
... I do remember seeing Grumman Mallard amphibians converted to turboprop power operating from the St. Thomas harbor at Charlotte Amalie during my first visit to the USVI over 20 years ago. ...
I need to figure out how to post photos ... presuming I can find them when we get back to our Seattle house in a couple months, and presuming they're still in decent condition, I have a handful of really nice shots of (and from) N1048V which was a red-and-white Grumman Goose amphibian operated by Antilles Air Boats ... Dec 1979, St Thomas (Charlotte Amalie) seaplane base to St Croix (Christiansted) seaplane base
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Old Feb 11, 2015, 11:07 am
  #6822  
 
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Welcome home JL.

Ok, I'll give this one a shot.

It's 1976 and on this particular date, you are in Fairbanks, Alaska ... resident of Vancouver, B.C. ... "you up for a little drive down the Alaska Highway? ... "I may have to jump on a plane and fly to Honolulu. Now we both know that CP Air has daily 747 service plus four Super DC8 flights a week from Vancouver. So the trick will be getting to YVR ... You then ascertain there are no less than nine airports which have scheduled jet service on your general route of travel by vehicle from Fairbanks via the most direct route on the Alaska Highway in the Yukon Territory and British Columbia and then via the main provincial route in B.C. on down to Vancouver ... identify all nine airports where you can conveniently catch a direct flight to Vancouver should you need to do so as well as the airline that operated each of these flights and the jet aircraft type you'll be flying on.
I think the relevant points on the road, or close, are :

Whitehorse
Smithers
Terrace
Quesnel
Williams Lake
Prince George
Kamloops
Watson Lake
Fort Nelson

All the jets would be 737s. Pacific Western did Kamloops, Williams Lake, Quesnel and Smithers. CP Air did Whitehorse, Watson Lake and Fort Nelson. Both operators did Prince George and Terrace.

You had to drive via Kamloops in those days because the direct road down to Vancouver through Lillooet had not been built.
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Old Feb 11, 2015, 12:09 pm
  #6823  
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Originally Posted by jlemon
It's 1976 and on this particular date, you are in Fairbanks, Alaska ... resident of Vancouver, B.C. ... "you up for a little drive down the Alaska Highway? ... "I may have to jump on a plane and fly to Honolulu."

Now we both know that CP Air has daily 747 service plus four Super DC8 flights a week from Vancouver. So the trick will be getting to YVR ... You then ascertain there are no less than nine airports which have scheduled jet service on your general route of travel by vehicle from Fairbanks via the most direct route on the Alaska Highway in the Yukon Territory and British Columbia and then via the main provincial route in B.C. on down to Vancouver ... identify all nine airports where you can conveniently catch a direct flight to Vancouver should you need to do so as well as the airline that operated each of these flights and the jet aircraft type you'll be flying on.
I'll also join the chorus of "Welcome Back, JL" and wish you well on your upcoming lawn duty. It may require multiple Cajun Bloody Mary's. As to your question, (somehow I missed it during my own flurry of travels) the Alaska Highway runs from Delta, Alaska to Dawson Creek, BC. From there you head down BC 97 to Prince George and on to Cache Creek where you'll pick up the Trans-Canada Highway on into Vancouver. I've driven it many times although most of us take the short cut to Chetwynd via BC 29 at Ft. St. John and thus bypass Dawson Creek.

As to the jet-capable cities along this route, I only come up with eight unless you want to divert slightly off course and head over to Kamloops. In any event, here's what I come up with...

Whitehorse CP Air 737-300
Watson Lake CP Air 737-200
Fort Nelson CP Air 737-200
Fort St. John CP Air 737-200
Dawson Creek Pacific Western 737-200
Prince George CP Air 737-200
Quesnel Pacific Western 737-200
Williams Lake Pacific Western 737-200

Kamloops Pacific Western 737-200

The direct road down to Vancouver from Cache Creek is the Trans Canada Highway and so far as I know was mostly completed in the 1960s, no later than the early 70s in some parts.

Last edited by Seat 2A; Feb 11, 2015 at 12:58 pm
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Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:25 pm
  #6824  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Welcome home JL.

Ok, I'll give this one a shot.

I think the relevant points on the road, or close, are :

Whitehorse - Correct!
Smithers - A bit far to the west, I think....
Terrace - Again, a bit far to the west, I believe....
Quesnel - Correct!
Williams Lake - Correct!
Prince George - Correct!
Kamloops - Correct!
Watson Lake - Correct!
Fort Nelson - Correct!

All the jets would be 737s. Pacific Western did Kamloops, Williams Lake, Quesnel and Smithers. CP Air did Whitehorse, Watson Lake and Fort Nelson. Both operators did Prince George and Terrace. Indeed, most flights by CP and PW to these destinations were operated with Boeing 737-200 equipment at this time. And in addition to its B737 service into Prince George, CP Air was also operating one round trip flight a day with a Boeing 727-100 in an all Y configuration between Vancouver (YVR) and Prince George (YXS). Here are the scheds:

CP 25: YVR 3:30p - 4:30p YXS
Op: Daily
Equip: 727
Class of service: Y

CP 26: YXS 5:00p - 6:00p YVR
Op: Daily
Equip: 727
Class of service: Y

I think this was one of those rare times when Prince George had 727 service.

And as for Smithers (YYD) and Terrace (YXT), Pacific Western was operating both the 737 and the DHC-6 Twin Otter into Smithers while Terrace was served by CP Air with the 737 and by Pacific Western with the DHC-6 Twin Otter. The PW operated Twin Otter flights were flown on a weekday round trip routing of Prince George-Smithers-Terrace-Prince Rupert.

You had to drive via Kamloops in those days because the direct road down to Vancouver through Lillooet had not been built.
Well, it appears I should have consulted a 1976 road map for western Canada before I posed this quiz item! So for the sake of discussion, we will use the Alaska Highway between Fairbanks and Dawson Creek and then the B.C. provincial route at the time between Dawson Creek and Vancouver (and I'm not sure just what this route was in February 1976 although all of my airline scheds are taken from the Feb. 1, 1976 OAG).
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Old Feb 11, 2015, 8:44 pm
  #6825  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
I'll also join the chorus of "Welcome Back, JL" and wish you well on your upcoming lawn duty. It may require multiple Cajun Bloody Mary's. As to your question, (somehow I missed it during my own flurry of travels) the Alaska Highway runs from Delta, Alaska to Dawson Creek, BC. From there you head down BC 97 to Prince George and on to Cache Creek where you'll pick up the Trans-Canada Highway on into Vancouver. I've driven it many times although most of us take the short cut to Chetwynd via BC 29 at Ft. St. John and thus bypass Dawson Creek.

As to the jet-capable cities along this route, I only come up with eight unless you want to divert slightly off course and head over to Kamloops. In any event, here's what I come up with...

Whitehorse CP Air 737-300
Watson Lake CP Air 737-200
Fort Nelson CP Air 737-200
Fort St. John CP Air 737-200
Dawson Creek Pacific Western 737-200
Prince George CP Air 737-200
Quesnel Pacific Western 737-200
Williams Lake Pacific Western 737-200

Kamloops Pacific Western 737-200

The direct road down to Vancouver from Cache Creek is the Trans Canada Highway and so far as I know was mostly completed in the 1960s, no later than the early 70s in some parts.
Correct on all counts, sir, with the addition of the aforementioned Boeing 727-100 service flown by CP Air and also Boeing 737-200 service operated by Pacific Western into Prince George!

And indeed, although Kamloops is not directly on B.C. 97, it is located on Trans Canada Highway 1 just to the east of this primary north-south provincial highway.

But what about the scheds from these exotic locations in the Yukon Territory and B.C. on down to YVR?

Well, here they are in the order of north to south land travel from Fairbanks to Vancouver. All CP Air and Pacific Western flights are operated with Boeing 737-200 equipment except where noted. Also note there were time zone changes from Yukon Daylight Time (YDT) to Mountain Standard Time (MST) to Pacific Standard Time (PST) according to the OAG as one headed south:

Whitehorse to Vancouver:

CP 22: Dep. 4:40p, Arr. 9:29p
Op: Tues., Weds., Sun. only
Number of stops en route: 3

CP 24: Dep. 4:40p, Arr. 10:08p
Op: Mon., Thurs., Sat. only
Number of stops en route: 4

CP 20: Dep. 5:20p, Arr. 10:08p
Op: Fri. only
Number of stops en route: 3

Watson Lake to Vancouver:

CP 22: Dep.5:45p, Arr. 9:29p
Op: Tues., Weds., Sun. only
Number of stops en route: 2

CP 24: Dep. 5:45p, Arr. 10:08p
Op: Mon., Thurs., Sat. only
Number of stops en route: 3

Fort Nelson to Vancouver:

CP 22: Dep. 6:50p, Arr. 9:29p
Op: Tues., Weds., Sun. only
Number of stops en route: 1

CP 24: Dep. 6:50p, Arr. 10:08p
Op: Mon., Thurs., Sat. only
Number of stops en route: 2

CP 20: Dep. 6:50p, Arr. 10:08p
Op: Fri. only
Number of stops en route: 2

Fort St. John to Vancouver:

CP 41: Dep. 10:25a, Arr. 11:28a
Op: Daily except Sun.
Number of stops en route: 1

CP 22: Dep. 9:05p, Arr. 9:29p
Op: Tues., Weds., Sun. only
Number of stops en route: 0

CP 24: Dep. 9:05p, Arr. 10:08p
Op: Mon., Thurs., Sat. only
Number of stops en route: 1

CP 20: Dep. 9:05p, Arr. 10:08p
Op: Fri. only
Number of stops en route: 1

CP 28: Dep. 9:35p, Arr. 10:38p
Op: Tues., Weds., Sun. only
Number of stops en route: 1

Dawson Creek to Vancouver:

PW 320: Dep. 8:00p, Arr. 9:35p
Op: Daily except Sat.
Number of stops en route: 2

Prince George to Vancouver - Note: All CP service is nonstop while PW 320 made one stop in Kamloops (YKA).

CP 41: Dep. 10:25a, Arr. 11:28a
Op: Daily except Sun.

CP 26: Dep. 5:00p, Arr. 6:00p
Op: Daily
Note - Equip: 727

PW 320: Dep. 7:55p, Arr. 9:35p
Op: Daily except Sat.

CP 43: Dep. 8:55p, Arr. 9:58p
Op: Mon., Thurs., Fri. only

CP 24: Dep. 9:05p, Arr. 10:08p
Op: Mon., Thurs., Sat. only

CP 20: Dep. 9:05p, Arr. 10:08p
Op: Fri. only

CP 28: Dep. 9:35p, Arr. 10:38p
Op: Tues., Weds., Sunday only

Quesnel to Vancouver:

PW 432: Dep. 8:00p, Arr. 9:20p
Op: Daily except Sat.
Number of stops en route: 1

Williams Lake to Vancouver:

PW 432: Dep. 8:40p, Arr. 9:20p
Op: Daily except Sat.
Number of stops en route: 0

Kamloops to Vancouver - Note: All PW service is nonstop with the exception of PW 373 which made one stop in Kelowna (YLW).

PW 300: Dep. 9:10a, Arr. 9:45a
Op: Daily except Sun.

PW 302: Dep. 1:00p, Arr. 1:35p
Op: Daily except Sat.

PW 373: Dep. 5:00p, Arr. 6:15p
Op: Daily except Sat.

PW 302: Dep. 7:45p, Arr. 8:25p
Op: Sat. only

PW 320: Dep. 9:00p, Arr. 9:35p
Op: Daily except Sat.

And here are the Vancouver to Honolulu schedules. All flights are nonstop, of course:

CP 301: Dep. 8:00a, Arr. 12:00n
Op: Thurs., Sat. only
Equip: D8S

CP 321: Dep. 10:15a, Arr. 2:05p
Op: Weds., Fri., Sat., Sun. only
Equip: 747

CP 321: Dep. 10:15a, Arr. 2:15p
Op: Mon. only
Equip: D8S

CP 323: Dep. 3:00p, Arr. 6:50p
Op: Mon., Tues., Thurs. only
Equip: 747

CP 323: Dep. 3:00p, Arr. 7:00p
Op: Sat. only
Equip: D8S

CP Air was the only airline operating nonstop service between YVR and HNL at this time.

Last edited by jlemon; Feb 11, 2015 at 9:23 pm Reason: clarification - CP & PW both served Prince George at this time
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