Toshbaf

Another winner.

It was Air France titles (with TAT on the nose), Fokker 28, Lille Strasbourg Milan (Linate).

In 1986, it was twice a day LHR-LIL-SXB Monday to Friday. I think it was once a day in the mid-morning, different flight number but maybe the same, LIL-SXB-LIN.

I made up this question because I considered such a flight. The choices to me were:
AF/TAT F28 LIL-SXB-LIN slightly earlier arrival, maybe 11 am
or
AF A310-200 CDG-LIN slightly later arrival, maybe 12 noon but later departure. Maybe 10:40 am-1:10 pm vs. ,Lille's maybe 8 am-9:30 am/10:15 am - 11:15 am.

Toshbaf

British Caledonian. Houston Intercontinental or Atlanta Hartsfield (1980 name), depending on the day - Gander - Gatwick - Murtala Muhammed International (Lagos)

WHBM

By 1986 Air Alsace were owned by TAT. Sometimes they ran under one name, sometimes the other. They steadily bought up most French regional airlines.

Bonus question : 10 years later, TAT had a new livery with a flag on the tail. Which flag was it ?

Toshbaf

The Union Jack, of course.

WHBM

Yes, British Airways bought out TAT from under the nose of minority owner Air France, and repainted the fleet in full livery. Did we know that there were Fokker 100s operated in full BA livery ? https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9728880 .

This was all in BA MD Rob Ayling's expansionist era. For France, particularly, someone should have told him that branding the airline as British Airways for anything other than flights to Britain, especially domestics, would go down like a lead balloon, but in fact it was compounded by buying up another French independent, Air Liberte, and merging the two. BA after a few years sold it on at a loss to Swissair, where the problem continued, and eventually it was all shut down.

jlemon

Well, I'm not sure if this would have been a through service flown with the Concorde between the U.S. and Nigeria....however, British Caledonian is correct!

Here's an excerpt from the wikipedia article concerning British Caledonian specifically with regard to the airline's plans to possibly operate scheduled Concorde service which I shall quote verbatim....and since it is from wikipedia, I think there's someone around here who will be able to set us straight should the following not be quite correct........

1978 was also the year BCal set up a task force headed by Gordon Davidson, BA's former Concorde director, to investigate the possibility of operating the Concorde supersonic airliner viably on the airline's long-haul route network as there were still two unsold, "white tail" examples at that time.

Another important reason for BCal's decision to set up a Concorde task force was that the 1976 aviation policy review (undertaken by the UK) had exempted Concorde from the "spheres of influence" policy and therefore it was possible for BA to operate supersonic services to prime business and leisure destinations within BCal's sphere of influence, such as Lagos or Rio de Janeiro for example. To ward off this potential threat, BCal's senior management decided to develop its own Concorde plans, either independently or in participation with BA.

The most obvious choice for a supersonic service was Gatwick - Lagos, the backbone and main money spinner of BCal's scheduled operation. BCal's Concorde task force's brief was to access the viability of a second daily all-premium supersonic service complementing the airline's existing daily subsonic, mixed-class widebody service on this route.

BCal put in a bid to acquire one of the remaining two "white tail" aircraft. The bid was not successful.

However, BCal eventually arranged for two aircraft to be leased from BA and Aerospatiale respectively and to have them maintained by either BA or Air France. It became necessary to find additional work for BCal's envisaged two-strong Concorde fleet to increase the aircraft's utilisation, thus permitting a cost-effective operation. Therefore, BCal decided to use the second aircraft to launch a supersonic service between Gatwick and Atlanta, with a technical stop at either Gander or Halifax. It also considered using the aircraft to serve Houston and points on its South American network at a later stage.

Both supersonic services were to be launched at the start of the 1980 summer timetable period.

However, it was not to be. And in attempting to research this quiz question, I also took a look at the https://www.british-caledonian.com website but was unable to discover any information concerning this attempt by British Caledonian to operate Concorde services although there was a section concerning possible Concorde operations by BCal predecessor British United (BUA)......

https://www.british-caledonian.com/BUA_supersonic.html

Toshbaf

Like Deutsche BA?

On the other hand, I've sometimes thought "am I flying on a 5th freedom flight?" when flying Alaska Airlines within the Continental US.

MADPhil

Strictly speaking Alaska is a continental state, it just isn't contiguous to the other 48. Then there is D.C....

Toshbaf

In the 1980's, Alaska Airlines livery included an Alaskan state flag and the word "Alaska" in bold black typeface. To me, it looked like a VIP air force plane from another country, except there wasn't any "Republic of Alaska". Later, Alaska Airlines won approval to fly Los Angeles Toronto even though LAX was not a hub. That's not right, ha ha, and an example of a small foreign country's airline bullying the US into awarding it 7th freedom rights. Ok, not quite, but a kid can daydream. Anyway, AS presumably couldn't make the route profitable against Air Canada, and withdrew. AS even gave away promotional little ingots of gold to passengers.

jlemon

AS officially changed its name to Alaska Airlines in 1944 and was based in Anchorage at that time. And, of course, Alaska did not achieve statehood until 1959.

BTW, U.S. citizens still have to clear U.S. Customs when flying from St. Thomas and St. Croix in the U.S. Virgin Islands back to the U.S. at the present time. However, I do not believe U.S. citizens have to clear U.S. Customs when traveling to the U.S. Virgin Islands.

jrl767

in the 1980s Air Florida was running DC-10s into Gatwick (and apparently several other TATL destinations), and I doubt many people thought Florida was a separate country

MADPhil

Is this true? You do have to clear flying back to the mainland.

KT550

Although not mainland U.S., I do recall a Customs inspection between St. Thomas and San Juan in 1988.
Maybe it was an agricultural inspection.

KT

MADPhil

You do have to go through it to get to San Juan because you can transfer air side to flights to the mainland. Although I have never quite figured out whether customs are involved at STX, there is immigration and agriculture.

Seat 2A

As a long time Alaska flyer, I am unfamiliar with the livery as you've described it - at least per 1980s standards. In the 1970s Alaska had the four Alaskan images as seen below



Their next livery was the modified eskimo with twin green and blue stripes as seen below... I believe this was introduced with the airlines' 727-200s in 1979



In the early 1990s, this livery was introduced - I believe with the arrival of the 737-400s



And finally we arrive at the current livery...




Can you post a photo of this "Alaskan state flag and the word "Alaska" in bold black typeface" livery? I'd love to add it to my collection!