Gaucho:

How is this board "Falling Apart"?

IMHO, this board is probably at it's highest signal to noise ratio since I joined.

A most excellent point, CameraGuy. This board is without doubt at its highest point in terms of members, posts, hits and other stats.

But..... wait. Im sorry, I guess I was confused. I thought this board was not big on quantity, stats, hits... I thought it was big about quality, being nice, lets hug everybody, lets be a Community, everything is OK, nobody is ill willed, all are happy, none are offended.... some are just taking a break.....

Wasn�t this board was all about putting the Community first? Or about members creating something more than just a forum to unite mileage & points junkies... Isn't that why everybody has been hounding the Founder to implement a 'massive' infrastructure & a police apparatus to make sure everybody keeps it clean?

Perhaps the above makes my comments in my previous post somewhat clear(er). Or is it that we want to have our cake and eat it?

[edited for clarity]

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Gaucho100K

[This message has been edited by Gaucho100K (edited 04-19-2002).]

Gaucho:

When I state highest signal to noise ratio, I am not talking about quantity at all.

I am talking about QUALITY. IMHO, the direction that Randy has taken FT has given us a board that is much more on-topic than it was even 3 months ago.

FT IS still about community. Creating a board where posts are expected to be on-topic has nothing to do with community.

On the other hand we seem to be veering off-topic from the core issue that Punki raised, so before we pat ourselves in the back for the HIGH QUALITY lets return to the topic on hand.

I think we are on-topic.

People are complaining about the direction FT has taken, including the locking of threads.

I am pointing out that IMHO FT is now a better place.

It is also MHO, that is is crystal clear why the thread in question was closed. Randy has commented many times that he will close such threads.

I don't think that there is a conflict between what Punki said and FlyerTalk being a better place. Let me quote what she said, and thanks for staying on-course.



[This message has been edited by PG (edited 04-19-2002).]

PG:

In the many threads dedicated to the discussion of the changes here, one theme is constant. That is the FT is "Broken" theme. None of these discussions have occured without someone, usually the same people, writing in some form or another, that FT is broken. That theme has permeated this thread, including the discussion of the topic at hand.

There are many of us who disagree with those statements.

I for one, completely understand why threads have been locked. I have yet to look at a locked thread and wonder why it was locked.

Ok, since you are back here after a protracted absence and may have missed some threads, why are some threads locked and others are not? If you are specifically referring to threads related to doc, read Randy's comments in this thread (which is not locked):
http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/004155.html

And I think that the spirit of Punki's post goes beyond personalities, and talks about rules and precedents.

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 04-19-2002).]

Better..... I guess in this case, 'better' is equivalent to beauty. I believe they say beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

FT is now better...??? I disagree. I disagree completely.

How can this place be better if the rules are not being imparted and applied evenly for all? How is it that some people get away with bickering, while others get their rears kicked for similar (and even much less conflictive) behaviour....?

Why do some get a return ticket to & from 'Bannedsilvania', get to stay at the corner deluxe suite of the best boutique hotel while others are stuck at the Bannedsilvania 'Hotel California'? (**)

Or, as has become clear in other threads, is this a matter of saying that FT is now better because those that we dont like are now no longer among us.....????

If thats the case, fine, but then lets not go back into Wonderland mode and think or say that all is well, that we are all friends, and that nobody is ticked off about all the things that have happened to this board lately... (and that from a relative newbie, I cant imagine what a shock the current situation must be for the original group that made this board happen).

(**) In case you are not a fan of The Eagles: " ... you can check-out any time you like, but you can never leave... "

PG:

I am not refering specifically to "doc" threads at all. I will be the first to admit that some threads that SHOULD have been locked have not been. The one that you likned would be among them. Since OMNI has no moderator, I would guess that in order for it to be locked, Randy would need to be notified. What I am saying is that I have not seen a locked thread that I thought should have remained open.

Gaucho:

We will have to agree to disagree. IMHO, FT is far better now than it has ever been. In your opinion it is not. It is my opinion that your view is the minority, while mine is the majority. I may be wrong, but I do not think I am.

(assuming the majority likes this FT better than the 'old)

Since when does a majority, just because its the majority, have things right? Or, is it that we have made FT a democracy?

The real problem, as I see it is a conflict of goals.

In order to survive and remain at the top of the heap, one goal of FlyerTalk must be to attract and maintain the really smart, creative, funny, frequent flyers who can make great contributions and develop wonderful miles and points schemes and plans. These are the truly creative, intelligent (and not easily controlled) types.

These are the people who think out of the box and are so in demand that somebody is paying to fly them all around the world, all the time just for their ideas and insights. These folks are very busy and often only jump on line at relatively slow RCC (or other club) hookups. They don't have a lot of time to spend hours and hours looking through tons of forums. They need to get in, read, post and get out.

They are also very independent thinkers and don't respond well to heavy handed direction. Continue the gestapo behavior of recent weeks and FlyerTalk will lose (actually already have lost many of) the cream of the crop.

If FlyerTalk demands that participants behave like sheep, it will retain the sheep and it won't be long before the spark, the creativity and the excitement of FlyreTalk slip away. I have already seen this happen over the past few months.

The proof is in the pudding and while I think that good board organization is essential, I think that the plan to achieve that desired organization is flawed and could be greatly improved if it was open to input of all FLyerTalkers who are, BTW, some of the flat out smartest people I know.

In the end, as they say, the proof will be in the pudding.

Ok, fine. But that is beside the point for which Punki started the thread, which is what are the rules?

Exactly, PG.

It is entirely possible that Randy's position is that there are no rules and there is no equity. It is his board and he can do whatever he desires. If that is the case, then simply say so and we can all decide whether or not we want to stick around under those new circumstances.

Punki, to respond directly to this concern you have that the people who "make great contributions and develop wonderful miles and points schemes and plans" will go elsewhere, I believe this quote from Randy on this thread makes clear his feelings on the matter:

It sounds like Randy is thinking ahead to a time when the 'best' posters or potential posters will avoid FT because of chaos and dis-organization. Randy envisions a place where they (and all of us) won't have to "spend hours of time looking through tons of forums" because everyone will know that the forum or fora we are most interested in will contain nothing but useful information contained in on-topic threads.

To respond directly to the original topic, I have seen threads which ought to have been locked but weren't, but I have never seen a thread which was locked but I felt shouldn't have been. Is there some inconsistancy in applying the rules? Yes. There are only a few people moderating and things will be overlooked or simply not gotten to. I believe most people do their part by infoming Randy or a moderator when things get out of hand. If they don't know about it, they can't act on it.

Keep in mind the line Randy has to walk in applying these rules. A heavy-handed, no exceptions stance will result in shreiks of 'gestapo' and 'censorship', while a more relaxed application will have people shouting 'favoritism' and 'unfair'. I don't believe Randy will be able to please everyone here all the time, so I think he is doing the smart thing and going with his gut. Yeah, so it's a little fuzzy at times.

If anyone missed it when you signed up, here are 'the rules':

Rules, Policies, and Disclaimers

Actions That Will Compel FlyerTalk Intervention:

• Inappropriate Posts
• Off topic Posts
• Offensive Language/Material
• Personal attacks
• Condoning of Illegal Activity
• Invasion of Privacy
• Commercial Messages
• Copyright Material

The post about 'Where's doc' probably fell into 'Inappropriate' and 'Invasion of Privacy', and you may feel that is rather arbitrary on Randy's part. But so is allowing 'Arturo' to post, strictly speaking.


(edited for clarity)



[This message has been edited by tigertiger (edited 04-20-2002).]