WN Asks Pax to Stop Recording BWI Ejection
Sep 29, 2017, 10:39 am
#226
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,881
It's completely different because an in-flight diversion is an emergency. Costs will be unavoidable at that point if lives are in danger. IMO, if it's a disruptive passenger causing a diversion the airline should pursue damages against them.
In this situation, you have a passenger claiming something and then not having required documentation. They are not approved to fly so I just can't see your view that taking the pets off the plane should be considered. Even if you take the pets off, she still wouldn't be approved to fly since pet dander is present on the plane!
In this situation, you have a passenger claiming something and then not having required documentation. They are not approved to fly so I just can't see your view that taking the pets off the plane should be considered. Even if you take the pets off, she still wouldn't be approved to fly since pet dander is present on the plane!
Offering the dog paxs an alternative flight may not have been the "right" thing to do (in your mind) but it could have resolved the problem.
I'm sure it will, but as I said, I can't imagine they called the police before first explaining the situation to the passenger. We'll have to wait and see if that information ever emerges. In the mean time, in no way should the fact that SWA didn't say it in their initial statement mean it didn't happen.
Sep 29, 2017, 10:46 am
#227
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,881
You're not comparing apples to apples. The inside of an airplane is very different than the inside of a store. On the plane you've generally got one way in and out via an aisle that is at best a couple of feet wide. If someone, as in this case, decides they don't want to cooperate they are leaving the LEO's with very little choice.
At least in a store you've generally got wide aisles, etc. And even then, if someone is resisting and decides they aren't going to cooperate and walk, there's enough room for multiple officers to restrain the person and carry them off with their hands and feet tied.
At least in a store you've generally got wide aisles, etc. And even then, if someone is resisting and decides they aren't going to cooperate and walk, there's enough room for multiple officers to restrain the person and carry them off with their hands and feet tied.
Sep 29, 2017, 10:57 am
#228
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 921
How did this lady know that the dog was a comfort/support animal? We have discussed umpteen number of times on these boards that the airlines can't ask questions. I certainly doubt this woman knew why the dog was on board...and many people here have just commented that support animals documentation is being abused, without any knowledge themselves.
And if you kick off a paying customer with a support animal of any time, now the airline is running afoul of federal regulations. The person with the dog probably had the doctor's note...which is a lot more documentation than the lady claiming her allergy issue.
What happens on the next flight if someone doesn't like dogs? Do we just keep bumping them until we get 100% satisfaction from the passengers?
Sep 29, 2017, 11:09 am
#229
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,881
No, it would've only caused a bigger problem.
How did this lady know that the dog was a comfort/support animal? We have discussed umpteen number of times on these boards that the airlines can't ask questions. I certainly doubt this woman knew why the dog was on board...and many people here have just commented that support animals documentation is being abused, without any knowledge themselves.
How did this lady know that the dog was a comfort/support animal? We have discussed umpteen number of times on these boards that the airlines can't ask questions. I certainly doubt this woman knew why the dog was on board...and many people here have just commented that support animals documentation is being abused, without any knowledge themselves.
And if you kick off a paying customer with a support animal of any time, now the airline is running afoul of federal regulations. The person with the dog probably had the doctor's note...which is a lot more documentation than the lady claiming her allergy issue.
What happens on the next flight if someone doesn't like dogs? Do we just keep bumping them until we get 100% satisfaction from the passengers?
Sep 29, 2017, 11:21 am
#230
Join Date: May 2005
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The point is that people behaving badly shouldn't be treated this way. In the words of UA's Munoz on the Dao incident: "I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way. "
Whether or not things could have been done differently before it got to the point it did is obviously up for debate as has been done in this thread. But once it got to the point it did, even if WN had deplaned all other passengers, she was likely going to be dragged off anyway. If she won't willingly walk off the plane she's also choosing to force the officers' hands.
Sep 29, 2017, 1:00 pm
#231
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,881
How should they be treated? "Please cooperate, you're hurting my feelings". People who choose to behave badly should not expect to have that behavior rewarded.
Whether or not things could have been done differently before it got to the point it did is obviously up for debate as has been done in this thread. But once it got to the point it did, even if WN had deplaned all other passengers, she was likely going to be dragged off anyway. If she won't willingly walk off the plane she's also choosing to force the officers' hands.
Whether or not things could have been done differently before it got to the point it did is obviously up for debate as has been done in this thread. But once it got to the point it did, even if WN had deplaned all other passengers, she was likely going to be dragged off anyway. If she won't willingly walk off the plane she's also choosing to force the officers' hands.
Sep 29, 2017, 1:03 pm
#232
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She wasn't "behaving badly", she was violating federal law by refusing to obey a crewmember instruction.
Given her claim of a medical condition, the option was to offload her or cancel the flight.
I can't think of a reason that 100+ others who are guilty of nothing more than having the bad judgment to book the same flight as this woman, ought to be disadvantaged.
The difference is that these are real law enforcement officers who know how to arrest an uncooperative person and train for it. The Dao thing when wrong when what passed for law enforcement at ORD bungled it.
Given her claim of a medical condition, the option was to offload her or cancel the flight.
I can't think of a reason that 100+ others who are guilty of nothing more than having the bad judgment to book the same flight as this woman, ought to be disadvantaged.
The difference is that these are real law enforcement officers who know how to arrest an uncooperative person and train for it. The Dao thing when wrong when what passed for law enforcement at ORD bungled it.
Sep 29, 2017, 1:17 pm
#233
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I thought that I read that the captain even came and talked to her first. Presumably the FA's did too. Or are you saying that you have first hand knowledge that the lady was just sitting there minding her own business when the LEO's showed up and without asking her to accompany them they just started grabbing, pushing, and dragging her down the aisle?
Sep 29, 2017, 1:37 pm
#234
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Sep 29, 2017, 1:52 pm
#235
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,881
I thought that I read that the captain even came and talked to her first. Presumably the FA's did too. Or are you saying that you have first hand knowledge that the lady was just sitting there minding her own business when the LEO's showed up and without asking her to accompany them they just started grabbing, pushing, and dragging her down the aisle?
Sep 29, 2017, 2:14 pm
#236
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Sep 29, 2017, 2:26 pm
#238
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Sep 29, 2017, 2:29 pm
#239
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Posts: 3,881
ETA: none of the major news outlets or blogger or even SWA that I read state that a flight next morning was offered.
Last edited by Troopers; Sep 29, 2017 at 2:38 pm
Sep 29, 2017, 2:42 pm
#240
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