justhere

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I have to spell it out.

Getting up and out of the way as quickly as possible, just like every other passenger, so that anyone sitting in the middle and/or window seats can also get up and off the plane.

As slow as the disabled person might be, getting out of the way as quickly as possible is just being polite and considerate.

I see plenty of able-bodied people who make molasses seem like a raging river. A little patience goes a long way when exiting a plane.

Now I will add that I have on many occasions seen the FA tell someone that needs a wheelchair that the chair isn't at the gate and to have a seat while waiting so as not to block the egress of other passengers (and for the comfort of the person needing the wheelchair). Sometimes that simply means getting up from row 2 and sitting in the vacant aisle seat in row 1. That has worked for us sometimes and sometimes it hasn't. It just depends on how my companion is doing and whether they feel like they can walk up the jetway.

And stop lumping everyone in to one size fits all. My companion hates to use preboarding because it's a reminder of their physical condition. They would be so happy to be the last person on the plane if it meant they could walk all the way to the back of the plane. They physically cannot do that, at least not in any reasonable amount of time. So they preboard to ensure they sit near the front of the plane. Lastly they certainly don't immediately move to disembark. There is never any immediacy to their movements. To some extent they are embarrassed that they aren't able to move quicker and let the other passengers out of the row and not inconvenience them.

I am with you 100% that I would love to see a way to prevent abuse of the preboard system. I don't know what that answer is but I do know that it isn't to make like even more difficult for someone that truly needs to preboard.

LegalTender

So a wheelchair at the boarding door is a proxy?

If Southwest's boarding system guarantees you Row 2 aisle seats, never fly another. Nothing beats movable aisle armrests.

LegalTender

And not generalizing about what "they physically cannot do, at least not in any reasonable amount of time" would be a perfect start.

The assigning of seats for special needs or assistance can be done in such a way that the value of premium purchasers isn't diluted. Assigned near front but no necessity to preboard.

Otherwise, buy a drink for the middle seat.

justhere

No. Go back and read some of the other posts I made in this thread.
More often than not we will fly WN because of that reason. Never said otherwise.
Nice try. "They" referred to my companion. One person. Perhaps try to understand the situation, even if you disagree with it.
Well, that idea has been brought up in this thread already. I believe there were some thoughts for and against that idea. But I'll ask you anyway, if you reserve some seats how are you not diluting the value of premium purchasers? Doesn't do them much good to be first on the plane if they still can't sit in any seat they want. So you might as well do the preboarding. Same result.

I understand that not everyone agrees with this and that's ok. I wish I had a better solution for it but I don't. The OP was about making preboarders sit in the back of the plane. That isn't the answer and is ignorant on many levels.

I also recognize, as I've stated several times, that the system gets abused.
Welcome to life. If there's a way to abuse something, someone will find a way.

I have plenty of drink vouchers that I carry with me for just such situations. Sometimes people don't drink and even if they do, they still want to get off the plane as quickly as possible and not wait till the very end.

LegalTender

Already did. You said the companion "will use a wheelchair to get from the curb to the door of the plane." But that what happens at the destination "depends on how my companion is doing whether they feel like they can walk up the jetway."

Do you call for a chair at the exit door, just in case?

With all the pre-board abuse resentment, it may be time for advance request/notice stipulating the need for Rows 1-3 and then assign seats, accordingly. Not all pre-boarders require what your companion does. The premium purchasers retain more value if aisle seats at front stay un-assigned.

Most walk-aboard pre-boarders probably agree.

justhere

You are quoting me out of context. Your answer is just 4 posts up from your post and it's even in the same paragraph that you took that second quote from. To be clear, it's never just in case. It's always. Re-read the paragraph and hopefully that will clarify for you.

You are correct. Not all do require what my companion does. Some require more, some less. If you somehow reserve rows 1-3 for those that need preboarding, why not just let them board and take those seats? How would premium purchasers retain more value if aisle seats at front stay unassigned if you've just assigned them?

Also, again, you're making assumptions. You're assuming that premium purchasers only want front aisle seats. Some want windows, some want exit rows, some just want to make sure their family sits together whichever part of the aircraft they sit in, and I'm sure some have other reasons for wanting to be at or near the beginning of boarding.

I don't really understand how reserving some seats is any different than letting the preboarders on and sitting in those seats.

Most walk-aboard preboarders pretty much get the seats they want. If you asked them if they wanted those seats reserved, of course they are going to agree because they are getting what they already get anyway.

If you asked them if they'd be willing to wait until later or last to board but they'd get seats similar to what they would have had if they preboarded, I'm not so sure you'd get quite the same unanimous agreement.

If I was asked would I be willing to wait till last to board but I'd still get an aisle across from an aisle in the first few rows, my response would be "whatever makes you happy and helps to get the plane out on time". If the gate agent said that boarding last is quicker for everyone, I'd be more than happy to do that.

Bottom line is if someone can come up with a solution that is legal and weeds out the "false preboarders" but still allows those of us that truly need it to get the seats we need and not be treated like second-class citizens, then I'm sure I'd likely be all for it.

LegalTender

And therein, the zoo effect. An assigned-seat, advance-notice protocol for the truly challenged would tend to thin the herd. Until Southwest gets a handle on this, the "specific seating need to accommodate their disability" caveat could be in the boarding PA. An achy calf doesn't equal a disability.

No one is asking GAs to play doctor and assess disabilities and medical needs as a condition of pre-boarding.

Let them read and initial:

justhere

Not sure I see how that is the zoo effect. As long as there is a way to preboard, people will find a way to use it even if they shouldn't. But I don't have a dog in that fight. The OP was about preboarders sitting in the back of the plane and the discussion continued to things like preboarders getting off last, and disabled people not being allowed to travel.

Among other things I was pointing out that the logistics of preboarders sitting in the back and getting off last are generally more problematic than the current setup.

But to your point, do you really think read and initial is the answer? If people are willing to ask for preboard when they don't need it, why would they let two little letters get in the way?

And to be clear, I'm not advocating for people who abuse the system. They make it harder for the rest of us, as is evidenced by this thread. Currently, though, I'm forced to endure them (whoever they are) so as to be able to use the preboard system as is.

LegalTender

And to be clear, the last thing you'd logically want is experimental assigned seating for the disabled and no more 2C/2D guarantee.

There are substantial disincentives to being part of the solution.

I honestly don't see threads like these making things much harder.

joshua362

Regarding the miracle flights and unneeded wheelchairs at destination, I think people have also figured out that an escorted ride and cut ahead of the security line is well worth the $5 tip...

justhere

Really the only thing that threads like these does is show some people's true colors. The thread isn't going to change anything and make anything easier or harder.

I don't see WN going to any type of assigned seating anyway but you're assuming that experimental assigned seating, if it came to be, would exclude aisle seats at the front of the plane. If it didn't, why would I be against it?

And it depends on what the solution is. Who's to say there would be substantial disincentives to being part of the solution. Maybe for people who don't need to preboard and/or extra time who are abusing the system. Any solution that precludes them from doing it would be bad for them but you don't know that it would be bad for me.

LegalTender

I assumed nothing. The airline could assign whatever seat pair is dictated by the circumstances.

As a stakeholder, you can't possibly be indifferent to having to cope with far greater uncertainty.

Identifying abusers is difficult, because not all disabilities are visible. But you don’t put on a dress when the Titanic is going down so you can get in the first lifeboat.

justhere

Fair enough but that's not what you said.
So I was responding to your assumption that experimental assigned seating would exclude aisle seats.
What uncertainty? That WN might have assigned seating that excludes aisle seats? I'm not indifferent to it. I'm just confident that it won't happen.
Identifying abusers is next to impossible because, as you say, not all disabilities are visible so WN has to take the passenger's word for it. Not sure what getting on a lifeboat in a dress has to do with anything. Not following your reference there.

LegalTender

No, I said it may be time for advance request/notice stipulating the need for Rows 1-3 and then assign seats, accordingly. Assigning aisle seats would not be a given.

Not being indifferent to that is perfectly understandable.

Thanks for being part of the solution.

Algebralovr

Some of us who preboard need the room of the bulkhead. For example, I need it for my service dog. While he may fit under a standard seat, barely, it will be really close. We will all be much more comfortable if he is in the bulkhead.

We need to get off first because he needs to go to the relief area. There is not one on the plane for him - he has to hold it the entire time. You are able to use the facilities but he cannot.

Also, since he doesn't fit into the facilities on the plane with me, it means that I can't go either. So WE are in a hurry to get off. Hence, we don't wait until last to deplane.
There are more reasons than the obvious.