rsteinmetz70112

I'm not sure that is legal. On the other hand assigned seating would take care of the entire problem.

justhere

Ok now I see what you mean about 2C/D. I took what you said to mean that aisle seats would be excluded but you were just using 2C/D as an example, correct?

If so, you can't do that as it's illegal.

I've said multiple times I don't have an answer for how to weed out people who claim to have a disability but don't and are abusing the preboard privilege. So not sure how I'm being part of the solution. Unless, of course, you were just being facetious.
Be careful. You'll get someone posting that all dogs should be in a kennel in the hold. Some people just don't, or more correctly, aren't willing to understand the issues that are faced by people traveling with a disability. They would be quite happy if you were required to wear a sign around your neck from a doctor proving that you have a disability and then they might let you board between the B and C group as long as you sit in the back of the plane and don't say a word.

LegalTender

The feds may impose the solution. It's a Chinese fire drill right now.

Carriers are required (§382.81) "to block an adequate number of the seats used to provide disabled seating accommodations."

Anyone needing an aisle chair to access the aircraft "must be provided a seat in a row with a movable aisle armrest."

Allowing walk-aboard pre-boarders taking seats before the less-mobile, special-needs passengers poses huge downside consequences.

LegalTender

Nor should you. One particular seat pair is always there for you.

Even the sun goes down in paradise.

justhere

If WN is ever going to go to assigned seats I'd be a little surprised if it was people abusing the preboard privilege that triggers the change. That WN takes no position on seat saving and undermines their system themselves should tell you all you need to know about how they feel about "fake" preboarders.

Ultimately, it's really not their problem. They are just following the law.

justhere

Perhaps that's why WN's policy is that people needing specific seats get to preboard. Maybe that post on their blog or whatever it is about people needing extra time boarding after A and before family boarding is WN's answer to this. If that is in fact how it is supposed to be done then I would hope the GA's do it that way. If they don't then it is WN with whom you should take issue, not the legitimate preboarders that need specific seats.
An aisle/aisle will always be available as there aren't going to be 50 preboarders that need/want aisle seats.

But that's not the point is it? The point is that you're right and my companion and I should just be grateful that we're allowed out of the house. Next time we fly we'll board after the C group and say thank you to everyone on the plane. Happy now.

jamesteroh

I'm sure it would be legal. On some airplanes Delta will black out the bulk head seats from being selected unless someone calls with a disability or is travelling with a service animal until t-24 and then open them up at check in. Fortunately this has never happened to me when I've had a bulkhead but I have heard reports of people being booted out of their bulkhead is someone with a disability buys a seat at the last minute or SDC or doesn't call ahead of time to say they need a bulkhead due to a disability (I've also heard of this happening with handheld infants on aircraft where there are bassinette hooks on the bulk head walls).

justhere

Here's what isn't legal:

Airlines may not keep anyone out of a specific seat on the basis of disability, or require anyone to sit in a particular seat on the basis of disability, except to comply with FAA or foreign-government safety requirements.

About the ACAA

LegalTender

Making rows/seats available is not the same thing as a requirement that they occupy a specific seat.

It's questionable whether WN's current IT is capable of blocking row(s}, in any case.

jamesteroh

I was thinking of this thread last night. I flew out of ATL on another airline and the inbound was late. There were five employees with wheelchairs by the gate. Only one left with someone in it. Other four walked away empty. I guess all but one got cured on that flight It was an MD88 so fairly small plane, not sure where it came from.

justhere

Blocking rows wouldn't really help. See post #113. WN could block the first 3 rows to be used by people with a disability but if someone with a disability wanted row 4 because the aisle seats in rows 1-3 were taken, for example, WN would have to let them sit in row 4.

With open seating the only rows that matter in this context are the exit rows.
Which lends itself to the fact that either WN's open seating isn't the root cause of "fake" preboarders as this happened on a flight with assigned seats or, as has been pointed out a few times, there are a variety of reasons why a wheelchair might not be needed at the destination.

LegalTender

Blocking helps assure "an adequate number of the seats used to provide the seating accommodations required by §382.81."
As elsewhere noted, a seat with a movable aisle armrest must be available for a passenger who uses an aisle chair on board.

That some pax meeting the criteria might take row 4 instead is beside the point.

Southwest's pre-boarding defies rationality. This time next year, look for a whole new policy.

steve33

There's a hidden latch at the back of many of the "immovable" aisle armrests that anyone can use to lift them up. It's usually on the bottom almost at the hinge, you can push it back (or whatever direction it moves) and it should release

justhere

It's not really besides the point as you are quoting §382.83(a)(1) and that doesn't apply to WN. Try §382.83(c).

The only way that WN will have a different preboard policy is if they go to assigned seating or apply to the DOT for a different method. I don't see either happening anytime soon but I've been wrong before.

LegalTender

I suggest a letter-writing campaign urging WN continue its pre-boarding policy exactly as it is.

Otherwise, prepare for change late next year.