Tizzette

It doesn't seem to me to penalize pre-boarders to ask that they let others deplane first, if they are going to slow it down for others. Part of the reason for pre-boarding is to protect fragile people from accidentally getting pushed in the scrum, which is just as likely deplaning as boarding. A disability doesn't excuse people from using common sense and common courtesy.

lexdevil

Totally fine with ASKING anyone who might need more time to consider waiting to deplane. Not just disabled folks. But asking is not a rule. Disabled people have the same right to behave stupidly and rudely as everyone else. They don't have a special obligation to use common sense or be polite. It is, of course, nice and appreciated when anyone (needing more time or not) chooses to let others deplane before them.

Tizzette

Love that. "Disabled people have the same right to behave stupidly and rudely as everyone else". They certainly do.

Terminator8

Asking isn't going to accomplish anything in today's age. Come on man!

It's very easy to create a rule which states if you come in on a chair, you must leave on a chair. Very, very easy. And to speed up the de-boarding process, the chairs come in after everyone who doesn't need one has left. So they get to board first and de-board last. I'm not sure what's unfair about that.

Them getting to board first and de-board first isn't equal treatment. Period.

lexdevil

Not a man. Also not as cynical as you are. I do think asking can make a big difference.

It's always easy to create a rule. Much less easy to create a rule that works. Under your "easy" rule, when do the pre-boarders who don't use a chair to get on get to deplane? Most of the pre-boards I see are not in chairs. And how do you suggest that the non-disabled passengers stuck in the window and middle seats deplane, if the wheelchair folks can't leave until the very end? Doesn't seem very fair to make them wait.

Being disabled isn't equal treatment either. It sucks. Accommodations are intended to provide equal access. Equal treatment ≠ equal access.

Terminator8

I once was on a flight and before we landed, the FA made an announcement that a family seated in the back of the plane was on their way to meet a dying family member in the hospital. She kindly requested that we all remain seated until that family left.

What do you think happened? Everyone of course ignored the request and stood up and started getting the bags. The FA came back on and made the same plea, only it was no longer a request, it was a demand. Everyone immediately sat down.

Crawl over them? How do they get to the bathroom during the flight? It's the same thing.

That's life though. Just because they have a disadvantage doesn't mean the rest of us should have one as well. You don't see Usain Bolt forced to run on one leg so that the paralympic athletes can compete against him do you?

That being said, I have no problem with the disabled boarding between groups A and B. This is when parents with young children board as well.

Rd3

Key word is 'on occasion'--I would think that instances like you described occur a lot less as most elites on other airlines are in 1st/business class--I'm going to make a guess that there's not many 9 page threads about preboards on the Delta, United forums.

lexdevil

I can assure you that most elites on United, especially those flying out of hubs like SFO, are not in Business or First Class. They are in E+. And sometimes, if they book close in, they are in E-. I've sat next to 1Ks and Global Service folks who were stuck in E+ middles. At SFO I often see 50+ names on the upgrade lists, so that's a lot of elites who are traveling in coach.

Terminator8

Most elites are elites because their companies are sending them on business trips. And very, very, very few companies are going to pay for Domestic First, it's just not a reasonable expense. So makes sense they would be in E+ or E-.

dionnec123

I have traveled a lot on SW this last year or so. I lost a leg to cancer when I was younger and have been traveling a lot without my prothesis and have been using crutches. ON more than one occasion I've almost been knocked over/down from other pre-boarders trying to cut in front of me or even bump me out of the way. Southwest's pre-boarding has become a danger to those that truly need it. Flight attendants have apologized to me because of the number of pre-boarders that clearly didn't need to pre-board. Their policy needs to change. I'm in favor of having pre-boarders deplane last. If we need additional time or assistance getting on the plane, we should need it getting off.

justhere

Plenty of able bodied people take as long or longer to deplane than those that needed preboarding. Just watch as people wait until those in front clear out completely before getting their bag down, etc. Getting someone that needs a chair off and out of the way normally doesn't take that much longer and that helps clear the jetway. And remember, that many of those folks have connections too. It's not like they can book longer connections if the next flight is more than 4 hours.

Except that would be illegal.

toomanybooks

Serious question here, as I do not know the law.

It is literally illegal for WN not to tell anyone who claims some disability not to board first? Or to ask them to wait until others deboard? They have no control at all over boarding/deboarding order?

lexdevil

It is literally illegal for Southwest not to provide accommodations that allow people with disabilities to fly with them. If Southwest could figure out a way to assign disabled folks the seats they need without boarding them early, they would not need to allow them to board first.

Though other airlines with assigned seating could board disabled people with everyone else, I think that they still allow them early boarding because doing so loads the plan more quickly. Boarding them with the other passengers will certainly slow things down, and boarding them after everyone else is probably discriminatory (assuming there is some advantage to boarding early, which the scrum at the gate seems to indicate is the consensus). Additionally, boarding the slowest passengers last would probably slow things down more, as assisting them would occupy FAs at a time when they are busy with other tasks. If they board disabled passengers early, this can probably be completed while the cabin is still being cleaned and readied.

As far as requiring disabled passengers to exit after everyone else, so long as people think that having to wait to deplane is a terrible and unfair fate (the premise of the original post), requiring disabled passengers to exit last is discriminatory and almost certainly illegal.

justhere

lexdevil pretty much spelled it out. As WN has open seating they have to allow people with disabilities to preboard so that they can get specific seats that they might need to accommodate their disability.

I'm not sure that the rules speak specifically to deboarding nor would I expect them to really. The thing is though, if someone checks a wheelchair, for example, the airline is required to unload that first and bring it up to the gate unless the customer asks for it to be delivered to baggage claim. So that wheelchair is going to sit in the jetway while everyone tries to exit if the preboarder doesn't get off and out the way.

Flying can be hectic and stressful enough for many people. An ounce or two of patience and common courtesy goes a long way for everyone.

Terminator8

So essentially what you're saying is that on Southwest, it's only legal for disabled people to board first and exit first? Does that about sum it up? lol