Without knowing the exact itin, it sounds like maybe a DONE5. Wow, you ex-London, wonder how much you paid for the base fare and taxes + carrier surcharges! I'd jump over to Oslo and ...., oh well, never mind!

Enjoy your trip.

Hi all,

New to the forum here! I joined especially to ask a question about potential fees incurred for changing the date/time of flights on a Oneworld Explorer RTW ticket.

It was my understanding that changes to the date/time of flights on the itinerary could be made at no charge, with the USD125 change fee only being applied if changing any of the actual stops on the ticket (i.e. re-routing). This is in keeping with everything I have read both on this forum and others, as well as on 'fare rules' documents I have found on the BA and Qantas websites through Google.

However, when I called to confirm and pay for my booking today, a member of the BA commercial team with whom I spoke informed me that the USD125 fee applies for any and all changes... When I challenged her on this (because I have literally never come across anything online that states this to be the case), I was informed that the reason is because of the class of my ticket (economy) being less flexible.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Have the fare rules changes in the last couple of years? Are the rules with regards to itinerary changes different for different travel classes?

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated!

NB: I was hoping for some level of flexibility due to this being a backpacking trip... hence my concern.

First, welcome to FT!

You are correct in that simple date/time/carrier changes do not incur the $125 USD re-route fee. However, not all agents understand this. Further, some airlines at some offices impose a reissue service charge regardless of if the $125 fee applies. You shouldn't have to pay the $125 USD fee unless you are changing any of the airports that have been ticketed (regardless of being a stop versus a connection).

Have you started the trip yet? It's generally much easier to make changes after one or more flight coupons have been marked as used (which might take a couple of days after flying a flight). The rules allow free date/time/airline changes even before departure, but it's usually easier to fly first and then have dates changed on flights you have not yet flown.

How did you book the ticket? That's important, as some agents and some airlines are easier to deal with.

If your ticket is BA-plated, contact the BA RTW desk directly ([email protected]) - they know the fare rules.

This is pretty much correct. There are some ways to calculate things without "editing the document," but that is often more complicated and may not always be accurate. FYI, to "save" the document (PNR), the agent has to "End (Transaction)" ("E" in both Sabre and Amadeus, though most agents will use "ER" - End and Retrieve PNR). If the changes were to be discarded, then "Ignore (Transaction)" ("I" in both GDSs, though "IR" is more often used).

To clarify, if you are changing an airport between a transit (X) and a stopover (O), that is clearly a re-routing and the 125USD fee kicks in.

Here is a data point. For my DONEx ticket issued by CX, I flew only the first flight (into HKG) for a less than 24 hour transit. There at the CX Wing F lounge, I requested for change of dates only, affecting all remaining 15 segments. CX agent did it while I was relaxing in the lounge. It took about 50 minutes. No charge.

Just for clarification, I added the parenthetical note "(regardless of being a stop versus a connection)" only because [MENTION=10043362]scotbus7[/MENTION] wrote "changing any of the actual stops" and I wanted to clarify that changing the ticketed points triggers the charge, even if a point being changed is a connection and not a stop. As for changing an airport from a stop to a connection or vice versa, I don't personally know if it is supposed to trigger the re-route or not and I would appreciate if someone could point me to an authoritative source for the definition of "ticketed points." I see the logic in what [MENTION=77686]ernestnywang[/MENTION] writes, because the fare calculation always specifies X vs O so it would make sense that changing this is a reroute, but since I don't know the precise definition of "ticketed points" I am not sure. I've had airline agents make such changes without charging me the $125 fee, but that could have just been agent error. When making RTW bookings with dummy dates that I intent to change, I always make sure that any place I want to stop has more than 24 hours between flights, and any place I want to connect has under 24 hours, because I want to be safe.

If you are changing from X to O, in the vast majority of cases additional taxes need to be collected, and the only way to do this is to re-issue. If an agent does not charge you the additional tax you owe, that's a clear error.

If you are changing from O to X, at the airline's / agent's discretion, it may be possible to leave it as an O even though it is under 24 hours. This is doable.

Due to the low base fare on my RTW fare, I ticket as many stops as possible due to not having to deal with married sector logic when I do date change.

Taxes have always been recalculated when I have made changes between X and O, or changing carriers. It's just the $125 fee that I was addressing.

In my experience, a change from a transit to a stopover requires the ticket to be reissued (which will result in the fee). As others have noted, on a very rare occasion I have had an airline not charge the reissue fee.

Married segment kicks in as long as the time between flights is less than 24 hours. It is something on the reservation end and has nothing to do with whether the ticket says O or X.

I suppose it is possible to have a recalculation of taxes, and thus a mandotory re-issue, without a change in routing, so it is not consiered a re-routing. That being said, if O/X is changed, this is definitely a re-routing, and per the rule 125USD should be charged. Perhaps some agents might have (mistakenly) waived it for you. Count yourself lucky then.

This has been discussed quite a bit before, and I believe the consensus is that a ticket reissue is not supposed to trigger the $125 reroute fee. Some airlines, such as AA, never revalidate, they always reissue for any change, and they only charged me the $125 fee when I've changed the airports that were touched. As it happens, I am in a situation now where I have an agency-issued xONEx and the agency tells me they are prohibited from revalidating, and their interpretation of the rules is that any reissue does trigger the $125 fee.

Yes, but I think pbd456's point is that if they don't know dates when they first ticket then they make sure that all the dummy flights have stopovers at intermediate points unless they are 100% certain that it will be a transit. That way once they start the ticket and then need to adjust individual flights there is never a need to reissue the ticket even if what was originally ticketed as a stopover ends being a transit (they just forgo any tax refund, but save the reissue fee), and they hope that just rebooking a segment subsequently doesn't trigger married-segment lunacy.

That's certainly the way I always used to do it, but my experience is rather dated now (this whole "married segment" thing is a rather recent phenomenon)

I used sloppy wording, sorry. By "taxes" I meant "taxes and airline-imposed fees (e.g., YR/YQ)". Changing the marketing carrier on a flight can change the airline-imposed fees. Some airlines like to recalculate the taxes for any change (perhaps in case the taxes changed?) which because of exchange rate fluctuations can be a different amount than when last ticketed.

The fact that what you said doesn't work is exactly what I am saying. Even if the ticketed point remains an O, if you are booking two flights and the time in between is less than 24 hours, the "married segment lunacy" is triggered. One must understand that the whole "married segment control" concept only occurs at the reservation end and has nothing to do with how the ticket routing was written.

I understood what you mean; YR/YQ is the only thing that could be different. There are some very rare occasions where an airport's tax is raised and requires airline to collect the new amount if the ticket is ever reissued, but other than that, if no ticketed points and O/X are changed, taxes other than YR/YQ should not be any different. Exchange rate fluctuations would only be considered if this is a re-issue before dep. For re-issue after dep. (after 1st segment is used), one is always supposed to use the exchange rate on the original date of issue.

In Europe at least, many airport fees and government taxes are contingent on whether it is O or X. And indeed UK's APD can vary on time of day between arrival and departure if domestic flights are involved.

What I mean is that with X, whenever you make a date change, the sector availability may not be there due to married segments logic. With O, if no space within 24 hours, I can make the stay just over 24 hours to get around the problem. Even ignoring married sector logic, it is certainly possible that individual sectors may not have D class on date I need. (Say IPC scl bog) .Ticket the scl as O allow more flexibility in date change.

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It is especially bad on QR. One time, CX had to call QR to request the space (luckily, QR gave us the space). However, it makes the date change process more complicated.

I am aware that this has been discussed before but I would disagree that in those discussions "the consensus is that a ticket reissue is not supposed to trigger the $125 reroute fee". My impression of the discussion here and elsewhere is that a change from a transit to a stopover requires a reissue, which results in the $125 fee ,unless the agent or station is doesn't know they are supposed to charge the fee or is just se happy to have the reissue completed they forget or don't want to deal with it.

Based upon my experience and the previous discussions, I usually try to issue with all my ticketed points as stopovers (even ones where I am just transmitting) to provide greater flexibility and avoid reissues. If the cost of issuing as a stopover is much much greater that a transit I will on occasion book as a transit. I understand that this can result in a greater overall cost but it is one I am willing to take to avoid having to deal with an inexperienced agent or station trying to do a reissue.

It applies to most countries :).

There are generally higer monetary levels of +++ when a 'o' is involved because additional components are payable - rarely do any 'drop off'.

So if booked upfront as 'o's then with date/time changes the following often happens:

"x" to o - since booked as o originally, +++ is already correct. Often the agent will simply make the change as a re-validation.

o to "x" - easier for for agent to simply re-validate and not bother calculating refund of +++.

(Of course, if there's a UK 'o' in there, the APD can be rather significant and a refund may be desirable)

We're conflating separate issues. First issue: does the fact that a ticket is reissued mean the $125 fee is due? Second issue: Does a change from X to O (or O to X) fall within the meaning of "ticketed points change" and hence trigger the $125 fee? On the first issue, my recollection of the discussion is that if a reissue is being done for a simple change, let's say the airline code is changed on the exact same flight already ticketed, then the $125 fee is not supposed to be triggered. Some agents and perhaps some airlines interpret the rules differently and charge $125 but others do not.

This assumes that a revalidation is possible and reasonable. Some airlines (such as AA) never revalidate (possibly because they use Sabre which I've heard does not support revalidation). Some travel agents tell me that they are prohibited from revalidating an RTW fare, even after travel has started. Even when revalidation is possible, it may not be wise on an RTW because of the mix of airline systems. I'm told that if an Amadeus airline revalidates, the Sabre airlines may not see it and hence would see the ticket as not matching the reservation and could cancel space.

First issue -
The fare rule says 125USD is due if the ticket is ever re-issued. It does not give an exception for a re-issue that does not involve a re-routing. It only says that revalidation is permitted (without charge). However, in practice, we know that airlines frequently waive the 125USD fee when the re-issue does not involve a re-routing, because it should have been a revalidation instead of a re-issue, but revalidation does not always work due to system incompatabilities. Travel agents are however not able to waive it unless the plating carrier specifically tells them that a waiver can be given.

Second issue -
I agree that the term "CHANGES TO TICKETED POINTS" is vague and could have been better worded, but one must look at this entire section (context), not just a specific sentence. Revalidation is only possible when everything in the routing (including O/X) remains the same. If O/X needs to be changed, a revalidation cannot be done, and a re-issue is required, so there is no basis to waive the 125USD fee. Some agents may have (mistakenly) waived it, but this would not fall in line with the spirit of the rule. In fact, the first time "CHANGES TO TICKETED POINTS" appears, it is directly below "REROUTING PRIOR TO DEPARTURE." Again I agree that this is not very well structured, but I think it is clear that in this context "CHANGES TO TICKETED POINTS" means "REROUTING" (including any O/X change), or else there should be a second sentence that covers "REROUTING" without "CHANGES TO TICKETED POINTS."

System issue -
I believe in this day and age a revalidation across Sabre and Amadeus is very likely to be successful. At least, the chance that something would go wrong is much smaller than, say, 10 years ago (and when CX and JL were still using their in-house CRS). At least I have never seen a Sabre revalidation that didn't get carry over the Amadeus in the past few years, although I am not sure about vice versa. However, occasioanlly it is still possible that something might go wrong, and the best way to make sure nothing goes wrong is to always reissue.

I'm not sure how long I've been using xONEx and xCIRxx products, maybe 12-15 years? It's always been the case that changes to date, time, carrier are permitted without incurring the $125 fee, which has only been charged when the route is changed. Changing the carrier requires a reissue, I believe. Likewise, if one tickets a flight in L on a DONEx, and later D opens up or one switches to a flight that has D, the $125 fee has never been charged even though a change to booking code requires a reissue. The "AFTER DEPARTURE CHARGE USD 125.00 FOR NO-SHOW/REISSUE" wording can be read in context to mean reissue after no-show. People who know more than I do have explained that "CHANGES ARE PERMITTED PROVIDED TICKETED POINTS REMAIN THE SAME" means that it is not required to charge the $125 fee for a reissue if ticketed points remain the same, especially since elsewhere it says that changes are permitted to the ticketed points with a $125 fee.

General IATA rule is that a carrier can revalidate the ticket with a change to carrier, but a TA would have to reissue to change the carrier. Change to booking code can be done with a revalidation in both cases. But only if the taxes are unchanged of course.

.....

I guess AA's policy is to reissue for any and all changes - I was surprised with this since my previous xONEx experiences were with CX and QF where basic date/time changes were revalidations.


My first xONEx was actually with CX ex CMB and the 'ticket' was 5 books of 4 coupons (oh those were the days :) ). A schedule change mid travel* required a re-route half way through and they send me a new set of coupons (only those flights remaining). Other than that, all changes simply showed up online.


* Travel was taken over 12 months with lengthy mid point breaks.

I think we all agree that in most cases airlines do not charge the 125USD fee when they re-issue without re-routing. The line "CHANGES ARE PERMITTED PROVIDED TICKETED POINTS REMAIN THE SAME" is under the "revalidation" paragraph and beneath "rebooking," not under the "re-issue" paragraph. Revalidation is certainly free. My point is that a free re-issue without re-routing is already somewhat in the grey area per fare rule (and hence TAs may not be able to do it), and one shouldn't use this leeway due to technical difficulties to further argue that a change in X/O should be free because "TICKETED POINTS REMAIN THE SAME."

"AFTER DEPARTURE CHARGE USD 125.00 FOR NO-SHOW/REISSUE" means 125USD is charged if at least one of the two following occurs: No-show or re-issue. In this context, it says clearly below that "NO SHOW REQUIRES REBOOKING AT A CHARGE OF USD125.00" because it is possible to not re-issue the ticket and put you on the next flight, but 125USD still needs to be charged. This is certainly an OR not an AND.

The RJ RTW specialist told me that any change to carrier or booking code required a reissue.

Does anyone here have any experience with quick turns at KHI?

Would still be interested in thoughts/advice regarding a scenario I described earlier in post 2590

This would clearly be a re-route that would require a reissue, since you would be changing the "ticketed points" (assuming you currently have LHR-SYD booked as one coupon, one segment).

It is possible for airport agents to put you on a different flight, such as BA 11, without repricing your ticket, but it would need to be an involuntary change, such as if BA15 were late and you were in danger of a missconect.

If you don't mind paying the $125 USD reroute fee, you can make the change in advance. If you have not yet flown any of it, then the ticket would also need to be repriced at current fares.

Also FYI this is not called a married segment. This is just a direct flight that is not a non-stop flight. A Married Segment Control (MSC) is a practice used by some airlines that "marries" two or more flights with different flight numbers when the time between flights is less than 24 hours (i. e., there are only transits in between, no stopovers).

[MENTION=40177]anabolism[/MENTION] and [MENTION=77686]ernestnywang[/MENTION] - thanks very much for the useful information and helpful clarification. Live and learn....

Hi, -- I wonder if someone would update me on some info, please. Does the AA RTW desk still require (even though the rules don't) that either TPAC or TATL be on AA metal in order for them to build the itinerary and issue the ticket? Do AA flight numbers suffice, or does it have to be AA metal? Thanks in advance!

I think it depends on which AA agent you get, but if so an AA code will suffice.