being a student, I feel like I have to add my $0.02:

yes, although community college courses are cheap enough, money is still money. any sort of unnecessary financial burden won't help

but what really bothers us is what channa said, taking up a potential slot. every semester when it comes to registration time, it is already frustrating enough fighting to get into class with other students. I beg you to PLEASE don't register for fun and drop later, and screw us out of our classes. What may be only 100 miles for you, could mean an extra year of school for us (yes, if we don't make it into that a certain required class, and that class is only offered one semester a year, we have to wait for a whole bloody year). many of us have our schedule carefully planned. any disruption can mean a massive cluster**** for us


PLEASE, if you can stomech cheating other merchants, i don't approve but i'm not here to lecture you on morality, but I BEG you don't **** with the schools. It is bad enough that we have enough to worry about as students

Thank you

[This message has been edited by ben1979 (edited 02-12-2003).]

edit: double post

[This message has been edited by ben1979 (edited 02-12-2003).]

No, everybody does not cheat, silkworm, as you can see from this post. To take advantage of merchants like that will force them to no longer accept returns. Free lunches don't last and besides, it's wrong. Yet to some Gen Yers (and I'm dating myself) right and wrong don't matter as long as one can take advantage of another. It all evens out in the end----I'm a firm believer in that so if you cheat someone or something, it will come back to haunt you.

-you can register for college and not necessarily pick courses til later, so it will not affect those who need those classe.

[[Besides, when we were in school, you could find ways around those clas picking systems too and always get in if you really wanted to. (hee hee hee)]]

-the whole system of returns for money in many stores across this great nation of ours is kinda cool but I dunno if miles gigs are gonna bring it down if they do not fit the mold. However, if you really want to see some differences, try Holland. Go there, get something like a pair of ESpirit jeans for your girlfriend or wife and then, when they do not fit, try to return them. try to return ANYTHING!

Can't be done.

Miles or no, we have it good but that country has sooooooo few less bank and fraud and monetary problems! I dunno, just an observation...

-As for KARMA and the idea that if you do something, it will come back to you, I guess THAT is the one that makes me start to think if I should ever try to return something again--even when it does not involve some foudn miles gig like mine.

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If speed is not your thing, distance may as well be. Enjoy and embrace it all!

Nope. Well not in my 25 years as a credit card merchant here with every kind of card anyway. One cancels the other exactly. Zero fee. Which is WHY the stores process a card credit if you paid by card. A small transaction under $100 they may not bother on this, but anyone here prepared to go to all that messing around to gain 100 or whatever miles needs counselling.

The scammer who started this thread alluded that HE knew stores that always gave him checks as refund. Then conveniently never let on as to WHO did so.

Reason? I do not think they exist.

A merchant selling a $3000 lap top or plasma screen TV etc and giving you a check refund has lost $90 real money right there on a typical 3% (generally somewhat higher on Amex and Diners) merchant fee. No-one is THAT stupid. "No credit card with you sir .. well - you WILL need to have this processed back on the same card or we cannot assist". Try it more than once and their security guys will likely be talking to you.

And THAT is the kind of transaction you'd need to do to even make a scammer think it was worth doing. Even if I got 3000 or 5000 points for twice schlepping around a plasma TV to and from a store ...... fergeddaboutit.

You folks can get 20,000 BA points right now (and those are REALLY worth something unlike US schemes) by you and a spouse test driving a Jag. And can sleep at night over it as THAT is 100% legitimate.

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~ Glen ~

Come and visit the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!

[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 02-13-2003).]

Either then you are very lucky or we are very unlucky, we certainly pay a fee in both directions in the very few instances we process a credit. Seems like we need to revisit that with our bank.

I think you may be unlucky. When I was a Visa/MC merchant, things worked just as ozstamps describes - the discount rate worked the opposite way for returns such that the merchant effectively got the discount rate refunded to them at the same time the customer got the original credit refunded to their account.

In my case, I had a $0.20/transaction processing fee in addition to the discount rate. This amount was charged for every transaction, whether it be a purchase, credit, authorization only, or even a declined authorization. So, in my case, any purchased followed by a refund would cost me $0.40, but no discount fees (I would imagine that with the plummeting telecom costs, many of these per-transaction fees have been reduced or eliminated compared to 10 years ago).

Yep, along with SteveM example, if I process sales this week of $11,000 and get charged 3% I am debited $330.

If $1,000 of that $11,000 comes back next week for credit and return, I process $11,000 of my new sales and a credit $1,000, so bank charges me 3% of only $10,000 or $300.

So yes I did pay $30 in Scene #1 but have it offset against banking in Scene #2. Zero sum game in the wash-up.

They cannot charge you 3% on $12,000 in Scene #2 .... double jeopardy for merchants then!

Look here folks, we are all here to help one another at this mileage game so it will be played by some. I have bought things online that offered free shipping only to return the items back to the store. I didn't care som much about earning miles on my credit card but I earned enough points to get a nearly free trip to Argentina (which I earned miles on). With my Delta AMEX, I bought hundreds of gift cards at Home Depot, bought batteries, recieved cashed back and put it in the bank. Double miles, batteries and interest on the money back. Who should complain that this is unethical? It worked! That is all that matters. It is best to jump in the game before the game is over. I am all for those who have earned miles in every way possible. More power to you all.

I had a friend who would buy stuff at a airlines website only to return it to the store. Somehow, his miles would always post. He does that every week now and flies to all these exotic destinations. I just could never get myself to do this.

Could you explain where and what they were buying and where they were returning it to for cash?

[/B][/QUOTE]

Postal money orders can only be bought with debit cards and PIN and do not earn FF miles. While I teach ethics at two community colleges in the Los Angeles area, I refrain from giving ethical advice.

You've got to read "MarathonMan's" posts. The B of A / Alaska Airlines debit card allows PIN based transactions that earn 1 mile for every $2 of purchases, and he has been hitting it big buying postal money orders and then depositing them, this way. There was a thread that maybe Bank of America closed this loophole, but it hasn't been verified.

Believe me, the loophole has been closed. Unless you have an immense curiosity about this "scheme's" rise and fall, you don't want to read the posts on this subject.

Scheme or no, should the bank have TOLD people it was gonna change its policies or not? There are those still working hard to try to find out what ever happened in the way of USPS money orders and the good ole' BofA...

Were they... ETHICAL? or just shutting off a dripping valve that we happened to find first?
Hmmm...

I wrote (as did others) a few letters to them and have yet to hear back but some people have heard back. Would you like to read my letter? If so, please email me for a copy of it. Some people then got miles as a result of their writings and calls (back logged ones) and still do get them, and some did not get anything. Sounds like the Sapranos are running the place over there.

Oh well, but you are right, no need to open THAT can of worms. It (that whole BofA very LEGAL "scheme") actually was noticed by WSJ on the other forum, www.frequentflier.com, BTW.

As for returning things for cash and all that, it is STILL what is legit in some stores today so unless they change their own rules to make better security on these things (if they even matter to them) then we mile-mongers will and should find the chances to earn! Deals change and we live with that. Here is one that works in our favor for a while. If 'it stops,' so be it.

Yet, I ask, why is it 'wrong' or 'unethical' when a customer 'finds' or does a 'thing' and not wrong when a store (or a bank) does --or fails to do a 'thing?'

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If speed is not your thing, distance may as well be. Enjoy and embrace it all!